How The PMRC Sparked A National Fight Over Music Lyrics : The Darkside Of Music

0:13 Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Dark Side of Music with me and Danny. Danny, how are you today? I'm doing good. It's uh a gloomy, you know, evening or after late afternoon, but like it's the perfect kind of like scenario to talk about, you know, true crime and cases and court cases and interesting stuff. Um, it is okay here. We've had some crazy weather go on in Virginia. Yeah, it's been up and down in temperatures, like it was like in the upper 70s, and then like two days later, we had freezing rain and like sleet.

0:57 Yeah, yeah. And then like that afternoon, I got two inches of snow, and then by the time I left work, it was gone. Like, dude, it's wild. That's the perfect scenario for snow. Like, maybe a little more than two inches, but like if you can get like I don't know, an instant six inches, and then by nighttime it's gone, perfect. That's like a perfect snow. And then to top it all off, it was like 32 degrees that night, and the next day it was 65. Yeah, I'm like, I I don't know what's going on. Like me, my my like body and and mental capacity cannot handle this changeover if it's just gonna keep going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

1:41 Like, right, I'll take another month of winter if it means we can just have summer in like the natural progression, right? Or have spring in the natural progression like right away, type of thing. It's been wild, but today it's like 65. Um, it's been cloudy all day, so it is that gloomy day. Um, however, tomorrow they've already canceled like seven schools in our area because we're apparently getting a bunch of tornadoes. Yeah, it's gonna be nuts. Though you could I didn't know you could predict tornadoes. I well, it's it's one of those things where because I I saw this because it stretched, it was like a couple of days ago. I because I have friends like in Texas, I have friends in like the Midwest and kind of all the way up to like Chicago and Indiana and that area.

2:29 It stretched from there to there, like almost the entire you know, width of or length, I guess if you're looking at a map, length of the of the country is this like storm band of just like intense storms and and wind and rain. Yeah, we're supposed to get like two inches of rain, I think, tomorrow or something. Jeez, so yeah. Well, I'm super excited today. I so it's odd that like every other episode it seems like we go from murder to to like lawsuits, yeah, yeah. That's the pattern. But this one holds a special place in my heart.

3:10 Today we're talking about the PMRC versus heavy metal case, uh, the music censorship case. Yep. This is what brought along the explicit label in music. This is the the founding, like you don't get more punk rock than this case. This is literally what punk rock is, I think, supposed to fight, right? Yeah, this like this this whole case is interesting, but like the some of the the highlights in this, and I'm not gonna give stuff away ahead of time, but some of the highlights are the mix and match of people that that are you know in this case and like specifically noted in this case.

3:57 It's funny to like look at that list, and then um to top everything off, this this case and um we'll get to it eventually, the Napster case with Metallica. These are my two, like this is what drove me to want to do this show was like talking about those two cases and Kirk Cobain, I guess. Um, but that was the extent of my music crime knowledge right there. Um, but this one, I mean, just just to kind of tip the scales towards what this meant for music as a future state. Without this case, you wouldn't have things like MM, you wouldn't have slipknot, you wouldn't have corn or modern metal in general.

4:46 Like anything that you've heard on liquid metal or Aussie's Boneyard or uh anything besides lithium and like e Street Radio, like the those are the reasons this case exists. So uh without further ado, let's dive into it. In the mid-80s, America found itself in the middle of a cultural panic. Heavy metal punk and rap were exploding in popularity, and many parents were convinced that music was corrupting the country's youth. Lyrics about sex, drugs, violence, rebellion were suddenly being blamed for everything from teenage pregnancies to suicides.

5:27 What followed became one of the most famous censorship battles in music history, the PMRC versus rock and heavy metal case. Okay, so sex, drugs, and rock and roll, man. This I mean, it's it's crazy to think about this because this isn't something we grew up in, like, type of thing. So, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just we're we're the product, we're the product of this, yeah. But it's just it's crazy to think about that because it's like we've always had like such a crazy mix of any music and and any like thing that we want to listen to. And yes, now we have the the labels, the explicit labels on stuff, but it's just interesting that we didn't even this wasn't like even this is before us, so it's it's just like we're there are people out there right now that are like, I remember a time before this case.

6:21 Oh yeah, where nothing was was regulated or like it was super scary, and I don't know. I depending, I guess, who you're who you're talking to, I I guess either we have some old like rockers or or just like a an a normal, you know, suburban family and stuff like that. They're probably their take on it is probably like the same as what was what when was it like D D was was uh like evil and stuff like that? Yeah, I think I imagine they're the same crew, yeah. I think it's gotta be the same crew, yeah. Uh I mean without without this case, the magic that is Cardi B's WAP would not exist, guys.

7:03 Look, Princess stuff wouldn't exist. Oh I know. I mean, to be fair, I think we would have had princess stuff regardless, but I'm just saying that's one of them in this case. One of the reasons that this was a thing, period. Yes. So um, yeah, I dude, I'm so pumped about this one. Uh, it's just there's so many things that this case did that I feel like most people are familiar with like the basics, but people don't understand how this completely shaped not just music, but America, like culturally, so much went into this censorship case.

7:43 This really was one of the biggest fights for the right to fair speech and free speech. So there haven't been very many cases of this level media-wise. Um, let's go into the beginning. The controversy began in 1985. Tipper Gore, the wife of then Senator Al Gore, we're all familiar with Al Gore, uh, purchased the Prince album Purple Rain for Her Daughter. One of the songs on the album, Darling Nikki, contained explicit sexual lyrics. Shocked by the content, Gore and several other politically connected parents formed a group called the Parents Music Resource Center, or PMRC.

8:31 Their goal was to pressure the music industry to regulate what they consider dangerous or inappropriate content. Ooh, so um they're they're the ones that insisted the explicit label happened. Um funny enough, I believe the same group are the ones who pulled Eminem's um was it Slim Shady was the album, I think, off of shelves. Um I believe so. I believe so. Uh because I believe I could be wrong, I'm not positive on this. We can always fact check it later, but I believe Dick Cheney and his wife were members of the Parents Music Resource Center.

9:18 Uh and uh they were responsible for moving Eminem from the the media. Uh, but now we dive into the filthy 15, which is you're gonna see these names and you're gonna be like, really? Really? It's such a good like honestly, this is just a good playlist. Like, yes, and honestly, if if anybody's listening that is part of the filthy 15, talk about the perfect time for a reunion tour. Oh, that would be sick. The filthy 15 go on reunion tour? Come on, yeah. Uh, so, anyways, the the PMRC created a list of songs they claimed were the worst offenders in popular music.

10:02 They called it the filthy 15. The list included songs by major artists such as, and we got tracks for this as well. Uh, Prince's Darling Nikki, you got Motley Cruz Bastard, Judas Priest's Eat Me Alive, the band Wasp with their song Animal, uh Madonna Dress You Up, ACDC, Let Me Put My Love Into You, Twisted Sisters, We're Not Gonna Take It, Which By the Well, Um, The Most Like Tame of the Group. Like I was Yeah. Honestly, when they do these uh these lists, and and there's multiple parts of this.

10:45 When they do like this list, it's like we can almost play one of these things is not like the other, and that is the one that like is like that doesn't seem offensive in any way, shape, or form. But there's yeah, there's as as we go down, there's more lists of the exact same like that was the pattern of one of these people or one of these things is not like the others, like yeah.

11:34 So um, so my thing is I I I think that Twisted Sister, and and we're gonna get into D Snyder here in a little bit, but Twisted Sister, I have such a major respect for that band in general, but the fact that they um were so punk rock without being punk rock, like like there were punk rock bands, you had like um like the Sex Pistols, and like realistically the Sex Pistols are supposed to be fighting anarchy, obviously. But what real social like battle did they take on, other than putting out an album or um trying to think like even Green Day, you know what I mean?

12:23 Like Green Day didn't really do anything but put out music. Where's the actual social battle? Uh Twisted Sister was never intended to be the social warrior band, it was supposed to be music for angsty teenagers to be like, Yeah, fuck you, Dad. Yeah. I mean, look, sometimes you know, not all heroes wear capes, they just needed they needed to be the people that needed to be the ones who were kind of standing up to all this, and so like that's how they you know they got pulled in to the forefront, not just pulled in to the forefront of the whole thing. So Rage Against the Machine and uh Tool, both lead singers of those two bands, have openly said Twisted Sister was a major influence on their music, and through this case, I now understand why.

13:17 Yeah, but um, so the songs were accused of promoting themes like violence, sexual content, drug use, or occult or satanic imagery. That's the one that's why I was saying the DD thing, because that's exactly why they were like saying, Oh, the the DD games are evil. It's it's because the occult and satanic imagery and stuff like that. It's it's no secret that I am a giant Pokemon fan, and my wife recently showed me a video of a pastor in 1999 doing a service about how Pokemon was the devil. See, they meant everyone messed up in that.

13:59 If they really wanted to get like kids to go to like Sunday school and stuff, you should have been handing out Pokemon packs. Like just like with how absolutely crazy. I mean, and still like it, it's like Pokemon's been around what 30 years. We've had 30 years. That was the anniversary this year. It had like a resurgence, like at year 20. Three times, yeah. You think three times? I would I know for sure, you know. Well, so 2016, Pokemon Go comes out in 2016. Oh, you're right, yeah. Okay, the 2020th anniversary, and then I would say the 25th anniversary had a bit of a resurgence because that was during COVID. Was that when everybody started really getting into the trading cards again?

14:40 Because I feel like okay. It was like 2019, like tail end of 2019, beginning of 2020. Yeah, that's when things went nuts. Even I bought I bought uh a booster pack, I can't uh a box of boosters um during the pandemic, like oh yeah, end of 2020. I happened to know a really cool uh comic book shop owner, and he was like not fully open still, but like he had limited hours and he would like take orders like online and stuff, and I was just like, I'll buy a box, like just and I would just every day I would open one, I would just open one pack every day, type of thing, just just for fun. Honestly, like great investment strategy too.

15:22 Now, now looking back, it I mean, you can't even 30 years has gone by, and everyone that was like, Why are you collecting Pokemon cards in 1999? And there were these people that kept them sealed and they're like someday. Well, sure enough, man, you can pay off a house with Pokemon cards now. So yeah, it's kind of insane. I mean, I I'm horrible at this. Like, ever I'm I'm the kid that just like I I got I played the hell out of with my toys, like you you know what I mean. Like, I got the full enjoyment out of them, but I was never the kid that could save anything. So any Pokemon cards I ever had, I don't know where they are anymore. See, I definitely had good ones.

16:03 Which now I just even harder as an adult, we make our own money, right? So now I just buy two of everything. See, that's that's the solution. The problem is one, put it in a box, and then I open the other. So I have a really awesome uncle who is who is that because he makes not only adult money, he makes adult money on top of adult money. So he has the ability if he thinks something is going to be really like like important down the line, where he can buy two. I don't make that level of adult money. So I'm lucky if I can buy one of the things right, right, and I cannot stop myself from playing with them. I have all of the new Ghostbusters Has Lab stuff.

16:47 I've taken all of them out of the boxes and played with them already. Um, yeah, every every time I go to the store, if if I'm buying, if I'm buying something that I think is going to have any relative value in the future, I just buy two. Like, unless it's like I have a hundred dollar cap. If it's over a hundred dollars, I'm not buying two, right? But if I go in and it's 30 bucks for like a collector's edition, whatever, it's like, yeah, throw two of them on there, throw one of them in a box. Just because I was that kid that opened everything. Yeah, and now looking back, I'm like, I really messed up. I'm also the same adult that sold the collection because I was like, what am I gonna do with all these Pokemon cards?

17:32 So now I really, really messed up. I mean, here's the thing you just never know. Like Pokemon, yes, I think. I mean, it it it stood the test of time even halfway through, where it's like, yes, this is smart to like not get rid of and uh and to hold on to. Unfortunately, I lost mine. I didn't I didn't get rid of them, I lost mine. I don't know where they are. Um, but like there's there's so many other examples of things that didn't pay off, like beanie babies, like like um even now, like the the Funko Pops are are way down in value, way down, and they're going bankrupt. Yeah, I got really lucky um a few years ago at this point.

18:13 I think it was almost exactly four years ago. Um I sold like a small storage bin of like some of my most expensive ones. And I got a pretty decent amount of money. Like I was like, I'm not going to do anything with these. I need to get rid of some of them. Like, I have some of my favorites, don't get me wrong. I'll always have favorites. I have a good chunk, I see them behind you on the wall. I don't have them in here. I have a couple in here. I have my Deadpool riding a unicorn because that will always be my one of my absolute favorites. But I do have like a wall in my living room where I had you know some some extra shelves and put some of my absolute favorites up there. That I'll just keep, like I don't care, right?

18:53 But but yeah, I got rid of some of like my nicely expensive and I sold them to a wholesaler, so I definitely got less, but I definitely got a couple grand. So yeah, at the time, I was like, this is pretty good. Shout out to the Hook and Bridge podcast. Most of those are from fans, so everybody that's awesome. That's our music wall, and then I have in front of me um like movies and TV shows, and then upstairs in the guest bedroom is my personal collection, which is just Pokemon. Um any anywho, anywho, uh so the PMRC began pushing the warning labels, uh, like we're talking about, the explicit label, uh, radio restrictions, and even possible government regulation.

19:38 Um, which again is kind of what brought on the legal battle because that is a pure attack on our First Amendment rights. Right. Um, which I mean, it's 2026. I I think uh with everything going on in the world, just in general, this is a perfect case to kind of bring up right now. Um and I think that uh no matter how you view the world today, in general, there's an attack globally on the right to speech, and there has been, I would say, for the last 20 years. Like well, I'd say as soon as you know the internet and message boards, forums, and stuff like that became easily accessible, so maybe a little less than 20 years, but like you know what I mean?

20:31 Like, because now it's like you go on TikTok and find people talking about anything you want to talk about, you can go on Reddit and find a subreddit of people talking about anything from you know super innocent things to super not so innocent things, like you know what I mean. So, like it's just yeah, information all the time anywhere that you that you and I I don't think that anyone ever thought that was going to be the case. Nobody ever thought that information would just be accessible at your fingertips 24-7. Like, I sometimes I feel like we take it for granted, truly. Like, oh, absolutely, absolutely. You can sit here with your phone and just be like, anything you want to think, like look up, like every thought, it's it's wacky, dude.

21:18 I will say, I was just gonna say, and and I mean, I'm more than happy to have this on me 24-7, and like if I think of like, oh, you know what would be really good. I wish I could, you know, get this, this, and this, and I put them in my cart on my app for ordering whatever I'm gonna order, and then just leave it there. But like, because my brain will forget stuff, I I luckily just can do it in 10 seconds and have it type of thing. Um, I will say though, it has dumbed me down significantly. I if you put me in a second grade spelling bee today, I would lose 100%.

22:00 Don't ask me if restaurant, don't even think about it. Well, here's the thing. So I a hundred percent agree with you, but what's really worse is I know how things are spelled, but my finger, my thumbs like that. I'm texting with are just most of the time I'm hitting like the wrong letter, and so it's still autocorrecting it. So, like, I I'm not even like trying. To misspell it wrong, but it's like autocorrecting it to the right, so like my brain just gets lazy, just like you were saying, but I still know the correct spell, like it's in there somewhere. Like, I know the correct spelling somewhere.

22:40 So every week, every week, I use the word interview while typing uh emails every week, and every single time I type it without fail, in my head I go I before e except after Z. Yeah. Like, dude. See, it's all still there. It's just the ease of it with your phone autocorrecting you and all the stuff all the time. It it that's what's like my phone still says restraint every time I try to say restaurant. I just say place to eat now. It's just easier. As a kid who had a lot of spelling problems growing up, that like being the ability to just do synonyms of or reconstruct a sentence based around what I can't spell.

23:30 That sentence turns out into a like really well-written paragraph. Like, you're like, I'm really, really good at telling a story. I'll take you on a journey to find out where we want to go. We never know. Like, this may have been the reason why I'm able to write song lyrics and stuff like that. Because my brain had to think of four different ways to get around words I couldn't spell. So, oh man. Okay, all right, all right. So we dive into the legal side of it. So they they basically they form this organization, they start going hard into the paint trying to crush music. Like they're like, this is not gonna happen.

24:11 We cannot let this slide. We're gonna go to the radio stations, we're gonna have the radio stations pull the airwaves, we're gonna go and insist that record stores uh have to put on a label that says that this music uh is dangerous to young people, um, and that it's very, very wrong that your children are listening to it. And then they start diving into the government sanctions over the media, and that is what brings us over to the actual Senate hearing. Right. The controversy exploded nationally when the U.S. Senate held a hearing on music lyrics in September of 1985. I wasn't born, Danny.

24:51 You weren't born, but you're talking 1985. We're talking top of the charts are gonna be like Madonna, Bruce Springsteen, um uh, I think Devo would have been pretty darn big at that moment. Uh Bon Jovi. Yeah, I think Cure charts, but Cure was yeah, absolutely. Uh, you had uh uh 99 Loft Balloons was a huge one then. Um I forget what that band was that did that one, but that was definitely big. You had um, like I said, Bon Jovi, you had all of your hair bands, your your uh Motley Crue, Kiss was huge.

25:33 So we're smack dab in the 80s. Stranger picture stranger things, but in real life, yeah. So several musicians testified in defense of artistic freedom. Among them were Frank Zappa, D. Snyder, and John Denver. This is my favorite. It's it's the list of one of these things is not like the other. It's the second part of that. It's I mean John Denver, Country Roads had to come out and be like, hey, you guys shouldn't do this. Yeah, um, so you have Frank Zappa, musician, outspoken critic of censorship.

26:14 Frank Zappa, strange guy, strange music. Zappa fans, if you're listening, God bless you. Because I I dude, I have listened to four Zappa albums and I don't get it. It's like um, it's like what's that band? It's like uh uh Beav Heart. Is that the Beavheart? It's like Captain Beav Heart, I think is one that like deep music fans will be like, you're not a music fan because you don't listen to Beefheart. And I've tried and I don't ever even heard it's so Zappa's just not my not my thing, but it's cool that he spoke out. Um John Denver, the only thing I know is Country Road, same same.

26:57 Well, and the the the uh line from Dumb and Dumber where he goes where he goes, that John Denver guy's full of shit. That's all I thought of as soon as I saw him on the list. I think that movie came out shortly after this. I mean, well, a few years, a few years ago in the 90s, yeah. That was probably 10 years, actually, to be convenient. Oh, true, true. Probably like 95, 96, yeah. And then you have, I believe so, and then you have D Snyder, the one and only lead singer from Twisted Sister. Did you watch any of the Sended Hearing at all? I have seen clips. I haven't watched, I didn't watch anything in prep in preparation for this, but I have seen clips from that in in the past.

27:43 Did he come dressed the part? I have not seen it. He he didn't he it wasn't just like you said, it wasn't like he came out like all like what his stage persona would look like. Like he didn't, at least from what I saw, like maybe I saw interviews, maybe I didn't see the center sent Senate hearing. Maybe I saw interviews, but he looked like really well put together. Oh, okay. Yeah, I've got it pulled up here. Yeah, he I mean, he's not wearing the makeup, but like outside of that, he looks exactly like his persona. Maybe my my vision of what a normal put together person is is a little bit I I've had blue hair for 10 years, like you you know what I mean.

28:28 Like, nothing wrong with that at all. I'm going blue, also. Really? Yeah, I used to rock blue hair, and I've been really wanting to go back to it. I think you should. I think you should. Also, I forgot what D Snyder looked like then because D Snyder now looks nothing like D Snyder then. That's crazy. Maybe I'm just visualizing him now because I think what wasn't he on some reality show or something? Like in my head, maybe I'm visualizing D Snyder from the reality show. Like, I bet you're you're picturing D Snyder as like the like ponytail black sunglasses. Yeah, that is him now.

29:10 Back then, he had this gigantic curly yellow hair. See, I knew that as far as like stage images of him and stuff like that. So, like, I guess my brain just kind of put together two versions of him, right? And so, like, I guess I didn't see the setting here then, but I definitely saw him talking about the the uh like the case and stuff like that. So maybe I saw him doing an interview, and he was because I have like what you were saying, like when he went on the stand is up, like he he was really well spoken and and stuff like that. So maybe I just saw an interview of him talking about the actual case and stuff. Yeah, he looks awesome.

29:51 I will say, like Frank Zappa, he's got like the the mustache and the the like goatee looking thing and the black hair, and then you got John Denver, short, short blonde hair with his big old glasses. Oh, every time. What the heck? Um, so anyways, they go in, they have the Senate hearing, they all give their piece. Uh D Snyder's is the most memorable because it was the most beautifully spoken, articulate, well like rounded speech. Yeah. Um, and like you said, it really did kind of show that uh D Snyder, outside of his persona, truly is like this very intelligent, well-spoken um individual that can go up against something like this of that magnitude.

30:38 Yeah. Um, many politicians assumed these artists would struggle to defend themselves, but they were wrong. Uh D Snyder shocks the Senate. One of the most memorable moments was hearing uh came when D Snyder took the stand, known for his wild hair makeup, heavy metal, meant heavy metal image. Many lawmakers assumed he would reinforce their stereotypes. Instead, Snyder delivered a calm, articulate defense of his music and the first amendment. He explained that the PMRC had misinterpreted the meaning of Twisted Sisters songs, including We're Not Gonna Take It, which he said was about standing up to authority, not violence.

31:20 Yeah. Which, yeah, I mean, it's pretty clear that's the messaging. Like if you listen to that song, it's quite clearly uh go against your parents' ruling as a rowdy teenager. Also, did they not see the music video? The music video is literally that. Like he's pushing the dad down the steps, and well, so I think this is like one of those cases where like if you want to twist something to kind of fit into your uh I guess agenda that you have overall, it's easy enough to to just be like, oh see, there's it's about violence, and but like if you dug for more than five minutes, I mean, let's be generous.

32:06 I guess it was the 80s, so if you dug more than an hour, I guess, about the you know, the song and and and stuff like that, then then I think you would you would understand that it's not, and it is just about kind of rebelling against authority, not really like violently rebelling or violently doing anything, but yeah. This brings up a good kind of conversation topic. Um 2026. Let's say that uh music is under attack again. Who who do you think like who's our who's our D Snyder? Who that's our first round draft pick for this conversation.

32:48 That's really tough because in this day and age, there are a lot of really, really well spoken artists out there, like in every across every genre, like that that you just wouldn't I don't know if you could really choose like because I don't know if you if you want to go like the biggest you can think of, or if you want to go like somebody that would be the most surprising or or what, but like there really are a lot because I I mean you could do I mean you brought up Green Day a long time ago, Billy Joe Armstrong. I mean, he's pretty well spoken when he's calm and and and doing interviews and talking about hey, this is wrong and this this needs to be, you know what I mean.

33:33 So, like, I mean, even if you want to do a direct rock for rock, I mean, Billy Joe Armstrong, but like, I mean, there's there's plenty of like even like you know, rap and RB artists that are like producers and have to, you know, speak well to other artists and and and all that kind of stuff to get their points across. So they're really naturally good at you know speaking. And if it's a topic that is kind of uniting every different genre across the the music landscape, then I mean I almost say we put an all-star team together, we don't rely on one type of thing. But I think I think Billy Joe's on there, as far as I'm concerned.

34:15 But like, yeah, I don't think we can narrow it down to really one. I think even narrowing it down to three would be tough now. Oh, yeah, no, you'd have a courtroom packed, yeah. Uh, but so the other issue too is not necessarily an issue, issue is the wrong word, but the one of the bigger differences is that music has become much more activism-based. Like there are very subtle hints in a lot of music towards one way or the other, some less subtle than others, yeah. Um, and exactly like you said, depending on on how your agenda is flowing and and what you believe in, um that roster can look very, very different depending on who's on it.

35:00 You have you have all stars on both sides of the spectrum, yeah. Um so that that is an interesting topic in and of itself is uh do you think that music has become too free? I don't think so because I think the fact that it has become so open that you can it if you look at I mean you can look at it as you know being a musician, like in in my situation, but I'm also you know, I am a you know a fan of music in general, and sometimes you know, genres that I don't sing in, like I'm I'm fans of stuff like that too.

35:46 And I think if I don't like hearing something or I don't like the way something's being expressed, there's uh still 20 different artists, you know, that are in that genre that that I could listen to instead. So I think the fact, at least as as a listener, the fact that it's so open and it's so you know vast and and free to kind of be able to express however you want, just kind of opens it to like anybody can enjoy it for any reasons that they want to enjoy it, type of thing. And I don't think I don't think that's bad. Now, I mean there's always gonna be, you know, the question of like how do you I guess not have to hear what you don't want to hear and and stuff like that, but it's like I mean it's the same with with anything because like like we've said because of our phones and our uh because of the internet and how everything can be so instantaneous, it's like you're gonna see something or hear something that you don't want to hear and or or that you don't personally appreciate as much, like you know what I mean.

36:54 So it's like it's just kind of that's life now that type of thing. 100%. I 100% agree with you. I I did make the joke earlier about Cardi B's WAP. I will I will say, as uh a relatively new parent, that is definitely not something that I would want my son to hear early on in life, you know. Um no, here's the thing early on, not gonna know what anything means or anything, it's just gonna be hilarious TikTok content if he does sing some of those lyrics. That is true, but but I mean I understand what you mean.

37:35 Here's what I will say, only from the other side of that. Uh don't do what these people did by trying to slap stickers on stuff to make it seem like it's bad because we're only gonna want to listen to it more, yes. So and I will say too that like I'm a firm believer. So growing up, um, this case played a significant role in my childhood in my home. Um, I was forbidden from listening to anything other than country music, wow, until I was 13.

38:15 So I didn't experience most of the 90s until I was 13, well past the 90s. Wow. And I didn't really experience rock music until I was 13. So I hadn't discovered Metallica or Iron Maiden or any of those like 80s metal bands or anything until later in life. Um, I didn't disc I wasn't allowed to listen to rap music until I was an adult. So I got I got to do the rock part, and then like even that had some some sort of like, hey, you can't listen to this, like couldn't listen to Disturb, couldn't listen to God Smack, couldn't listen to uh uh some Alice and Chains songs, like definitely no slipknot, like you know, anything too heavy was forbidden.

39:03 Um, but I didn't really listen to uh rap music until I was an adult when I had the ability to. I always kind of snuck off with my friends and heard some stuff, but it wasn't something that you could just like access immediately, you know? Oh yeah, I I had such an opposite right, right? I got I got really lucky. My dad showed me pretty much any rock that I would classic rock, 90s rock, 80s rock, modern day rock, like everything through I remember, I don't remember like I don't remember it. I remember him telling a story of like I went through this weird period where I was like three, four, and I would just sing whatever was on the radio, right?

39:46 I would just sing to it, and and my dad would be like, I don't know how he knows all the lyrics to just random stuff, but it was just like I was a sponge, I was just sucking up like all the the songs and lyrics and stuff like that. But yeah, I I pretty much heard any like I remember just like yeah, we had a wall of CDs and just anything you could think of, like from classic rock to like 90s to like grunge to like you know punk rock, like oh, and then I started then then I got to the age where I started you know diving more into punk and to punk rock into ska, and I would like every once in a while my I'd get my dad into some of it, and then I finally made it to pop punk, and then my dad liked everything pop.

40:35 The other day, I I don't know if I've told you this before. The other day I I was listening to I put a playlist together and I was with my dad and we were hanging out, and this is not the other day, it was like probably two years ago at this point. Um, but uh one of the songs that comes on, and it's one of my favorite songs. It's uh Right Back at It Again from A Day to Remember. Oh and it played, and my dad goes, Oh, what band was that? And I was like, A Day to Remember, and he goes, I really like that band. Flash forward, he's like added it to his playlist and and stuff like that. Like he's got playlists that have like stories so far on it, and yeah, yeah, great, like stuff that I didn't think he was into, but he just like he would hear it from me, and then he would just start putting it on playlists and stuff.

41:17 Okay, so so it's so funny. Like, I had a very similar experience with my dad when I was able to listen to rock music, but also like we also had CD, like my dad was like into Pink Floyd and the Eagles, and so like it was just I wasn't allowed, like, we had out. Oh, that's even worse. He mom loved Michael Jackson, my mom loved Prince, like, but I wasn't allowed to listen to it. Wow, so it was a weird thing. But uh when I was old enough, um, and I found Caether, uh, I showed my dad Cether, and he was obsessed with them. And then I found God Smack and he got obsessed with them.

41:59 Those are his two favorite bands now. You know, it's really funny. So I uh it almost the same thing happened with and there's a ton of pop punk music and and easy core music that my dad loves that and I wasn't afraid to show him that because he doesn't care what I'm listening to, it's mine. Um but I remember getting uh the Mark Tom and Travis show, and I was terrified to let him hear that because Animal the State's one thing Mark Tom and Travis show is just so far past that, like that I and so I was terrified, and and one day and I had it on, I was listening to it, and he goes, What are you listening to?

42:41 And I had headphones in and stuff, and I was like, Oh, it's blink 182. He goes, Oh, I know blink 82, they're good, I like them. And I was like, Oh, okay. He goes, Well, why don't you why don't you connect it to like the the stereo and stuff? And I was like, Okay. Is that the one with is that the one with like the picture of like the cow or something on it? No, it's the pit it's the cartoon version of all of them. It's it's oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a live concert, and so it's got everything in between and the dog song on it, yeah. It's everything, and it's got like the blowjob song on it, it's got everything, but it's awesome because it's all of my favorite, like it's so many of my favorite songs from them played like the speed that I want to hear them.

43:24 Like, that's the best part about hearing them in concert because they play so much faster. So like I always want aliens to exist at that speed, I always want like my favorite songs at that speed and stuff. So, and then just having them scream like like boobies every once in a while, and I was just like, Oh, this is not gonna be good. I just remember being so nervous, and my dad is like cracking up listening to it and stuff. That's so good. Why were you hiding this? I was like, I don't know. But the crazier thing is none of that would exist, yeah, if it weren't for this case. Yeah. Um, Frank Zappa gave a far more direct speech.

44:04 He argued that the government's involvement in music content was a dangerous step towards censorship, which we 100% agree with. It is a huge, huge impediment on our rights as individuals. Uh, if you feel that you want to say something, whether it be poetry or the written word or music or to your Friends, however, you want to say it, you should have that right if it's not hurting anyone. That's the thing, is like there's a difference between free speech and hateful speech. Right. And there's a very, very fine line between the two.

44:46 You have the right to say anything you want, you also have to accept the consequences of the world. Exactly. That's the real point in everything. You have the First Amendment right to say something, but you also have to understand that actions have consequences. The other thing, too, that I think as a society, people uh misinterpret about free speech is your freedom of speech is only tied to the government. You cannot be prosecuted or vilified by the US government for your speech.

45:27 However, everything else is fair game. Walmart can deny you service, your job can fire you, and they do, and they do, and I think that people misunderstand that specific point so often that you can do anything you want in this world, but the consequences still stand, and you cannot get upset with your employer, they are not impending your freedom of speech, right? Because that only applies to the government. If your employer heard something you said and they decided to separate themselves from you, that is their right as a business.

46:17 But the more important thing is that uh Zappa described the PMRC's proposal as an ill-conceived piece of nonsense and warned that allowing politicians to regulate art could threaten free expression, free expression across all media. He believed that once censorship starts, it would not stop with music. I also agree with his point there. Once you start censoring some form of media, all media now becomes precedent. Uh, you can continue to push that boundary and push that line until finally you control media in general. Uh and that's a very dangerous, slippery slope.

47:00 Um, as a result, despite resistance from musicians, the music industry agreed to a compromise in 1985. The recording labels began placing parental advisory explicit content labels on albums with explicit lyrics. Again, like we talked about, completely backfired because I agree. As soon as I saw, dude, sometimes I only bought music because it had that label. I was like, Oh, I I only want this one. Don't give me the radio edits, give me the one with the label. Yeah, don't give me the weird bleeps or the weird absence of words, or those or the the flipping around of certain syllables and and stuff like that. Yeah, I want the I want the radio.

47:42 I I mean, I so really funny. Quick story. We just had to get radio edits of of my band's music. Like, because we didn't even think about it. We didn't even think about it like when we were because we were like, oh, yes, we're gonna get some physical CDs to sell at the show where we're not censoring ourselves, so that shouldn't matter. But then also it's gonna be up on Spotify and Apple Music and stuff like that, and it's gonna have the little E next to it for explicit. Like, we don't care, we didn't think about that, but we're getting asked for it for radio rotation and college radio, like that kind of stuff, like to submit it for that. That's where you need it censored, and so yeah, we had to get the radio edits.

48:25 That's exciting news, though. That's huge, man. We'll we'll see what happens, but like it's just one of those yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I I mean, I definitely like even now with with uh Spotify, Apple, um, and uh Sirius XM. I will full on change a Sirius XM channel if I hear a song that's missing a part. I'm like, nah, what are we doing? I'm not self. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I have never like I worked at Sirius XM for like eight years. I have never heard a censored oh yeah, yeah. Um, so what's the the Pop 2K station is completely radio versions of all of those songs from the 2000s?

49:14 Now I will say this that is a smart business tactic for Series XM because then they can get like doctor's offices and dentists' offices and all these places that still want to have radio friendly, but still don't want to have like commercials. Yep, that's a whole new market. Like that's me, buddy. I I throw that on in the in the shop, and because I funny story, um, speaking of censorship, good reason censorship actually does exist. I was listening to my personal music in my shop, and um, somebody very, very high up in the company came unexpected, and I was out having a conversation in the lobby area with him, and my music's in my office playing, but I have it loud because I'm the only one that works there, so uh he can hear it, and I don't know if you know it, but there's a song called Gummo by Takashi69, um that I love.

50:16 Um, so it comes on, and let's just say that I think there are only four words that I'm allowed to say in that song. So it's playing, and I look at him and I'm like, hey, and he goes, Yeah, can you please go turn that off? Super, super embarrassing. So I'm talking like below the owner level, like the top dog next to the owner. So I go, I go turn that off. Uh, and from that day forward, pop 2k only in my office. Look, you had a 50-50 chance.

50:56 What if he was like, hey, crank that? Like, yes, yes. Then you're like most loved employee, and and it's by like the person right underneath the owners. Like, okay, that's one of those songs that I even like I like. I it could be like 700 degrees outside. I'm keeping the windows up in my car. Like, I I'll switch the song before I roll down the windows. But I love that song so much, I think it's so good. So, anyways, um, so yeah, the the result was the advisory label. Uh, the labels were intended to warn parents about potentially offensive material.

51:37 Ironically, the sticker often had the opposite effect. So, uh, for many young listeners, the parental advisory label became a badge of rebellion and actually increased the popularity of certain albums, which caused its own problem in the industry because then for a period of time you had bands just be being explicit for the point of being explicit. Yeah, like there are certain songs that like when you listen to them, you're like, you didn't need the f bomb in there, you literally just did it so that they'd have to put the E next to it. So you do have that as a as a result, um but so many great things came out of it.

52:21 It truly became such an important case within the music industry. Um, one of the most important cases in music history. The PMRC controversy permanently changed the music industry, the advisory label became a standard practice and remains on albums and digital releases today. The debate also sparked larger conversations about artistic freedom, parental responsibility, government involvement in media, moral panic in pop culture. It also helped uh help solidify the rebellious identity of heavy metal and rap music, which is 100% true.

53:01 Yeah, so yeah, that that more or less is the case. Um, I I can't say enough how how happy I am to talk about this. Like, I love the idea of music censorship and um what it meant for the industry and what it meant moving forward and potentially what it meant for bands, like some bands wouldn't have the popularity they do today without that label, yeah. Uh, specifically, like I brought up before, Eminem. I don't think that Eminem exists in a world where that label doesn't exist.

53:43 I think he kind of falls through the cracks of society simply because it'll just be another rap record. Yeah, but you have an entire group of people who just came off of the prepositive precipice of uh not having that label. It's this new thing. Eminem comes out as a white rapper in the industry, they already aren't supposed to listen to it, and now he's also a white rapper in the industry. So that storm created a phenomenon that lived on in rap music and kind of brought rap into um the forefront of American culture and allowed bands like NWA and and uh Tupac and Biggie and uh Dr.

54:32 Dre and so many other Snoop Dogg to kind of shine because of that label. If it weren't for that label, I don't see that genre being what it is today. So it's it's weird because I I don't disagree with you, but it's like I almost wonder if they would if it would have found another way. Like, because there's so much talent, and and I get it. Like in and you see it being in in in bands for for so many years, you see those bands that that also just they're so good, and you see them, and you see, or you see like a specific musician in a certain band, and you're like, he is so good.

55:16 I will never be that good, but for whatever reason, it just never works out. So like I wonder what it would have like I wonder what would have happened, like because I don't, like I said, I don't disagree with you that these major things kind of need to happen to kind of just put in that little spark to like to make something like go go massive on on a on a huge level type of thing. But I I wonder if there would have just been some something else because there's just you pick a genre, there's for anything you could do, you could do rap, you could do heavy metal, you do whatever. There's just too much talent in a specific genre for that to not, you know, at some point push forward and and just be like explode, like and super big.

56:04 It might not happen, you know, when it did, but I'm just I'm just saying, I wonder like what how it would have played out, like type type of thing, if this whole case had never happened, right? It would have made it would have made radio way more interesting uh with us growing up and and stuff like that. But uh, but yeah, I just it it it's really interesting when you look back and think about like what if that hadn't happened, how would have things how things would have played differently, because I mean there's always gonna be that reason for music to to kind of have a a rebellious tone to it. There's always gonna be that, like it can be rebellious rebellious against you know social normities, it could be rebellious against you know politics, it could be rebellious against whatever, but there's always going to be that.

56:58 So, I mean, even like the we're not gonna take it against parents, like you know what I mean, like it's always gonna be there. So, like I just wonder with this not if this hadn't happened or hadn't been on this big of a scale, what would have the like the next thing been? Like that's that's true, that's a good point. See, I I think of it in terms of um of popularity of specific genres in western music now, and you look at like how country has managed to dominate the charts for 50, 60 years, like for some reason that genre is always the top western genre, and I think without the label, I worry that those genres just would have gotten lost because of how country is still dominating today, even with everything that happened within those different genres, and and how this label really pushed sales so hard to a youth that never would have found them.

58:04 I I truly think that we would have ended up becoming almost segregated within the music industry. I think that you would have seen those artists become popular globally, and I think that Western American music, like like we talked about before, if you make it in America, you've made it globally. Um, I think that you would have seen us not dominate in music. I think it would have be we would have been like Japan, if that makes sense. Okay, like you know how Japanese had a specialty, is what you mean. Yeah, we wouldn't be like the melting pot of music, right? And like that's where every genre genre can make it type of thing.

58:45 We would have just been known for you know a specialty because Japan's known for well, Japan's not known for I wanted to say K-pop, but that's Korea. Um Japan, I feel like, is more known for popularizing Western music, right? Like I feel like they pull our music, and that's how Japan gets their music. I feel like we would have become that, and then like the UK maybe would have become the dominant like factor of of music globally, um because they were pretty much kind of more accepting of music during that time. Um we've always kind of battled those two countries for for dominance in music, the UK and the US.

59:31 Oh, we've battled on other stuff too, but 1776, never forget. But but sorry, I definitely just lost all of our UK viewers there. Uh but anyways, no, I I agree with you. It's it's crazy to kind of think about, but that was that was our case today, man. What a great one! Yeah, and forever I I will only buy stuff that has a little e next to it. So that's right. Yeah, that's the message today. Only buy explicit. Kids tell your parents always buy explicit. Yes. And and only listen to like your streaming music so you can you can hear it whenever you want to.

1:00:16 You don't have to worry about the radio. That's right. Uh Danny, tell the people where they can find you. You can find me anywhere that my band is on social media at just happy to be here. Um, and and you can find the other podcast, uh, that recap show that that I do where we recap TV shows and movies and have fun with that. We're gearing up for the new season of Daredevil Born Again, which is coming out later. Yeah, I'm excited for that. Um, and a couple other you know, movies and shows. This year is gonna be massive. I know we don't talk about this, but this year is just gonna be massive for TV shows and movies and and video and and and video games.

1:00:57 I feel like we could spend another hour talking about video games, which I never get a chance to talk about either, but yeah. So um if you ever want to do an episode specifically about Jurassic Park or Jurassic World or the entire Jurassic franchise, please let me know because I will I will 110% you I will you you text me a day and time, I'm there because we do we do another thing, so we do that recap is kind of the normal ones that are happening, but then we do retro recaps, and so like we did we did Christmas ones, we did like our favorite Christmas ones, but we do just retro ones anytime, so like I'll I'll do dress parts so in, dude.

1:01:37 Um hell yeah, dude. I can't wait, I can't wait to check that out. Um, so you can find me, hook and bridge podcast, uh, all that good stuff, and we're we're doing our normal stuff and and doing the show and doing video game stuff and all that good stuff. This has been incredible, Danny. We before before we completely sign off, you know what we should do at some point? We should we should bring this onto Twitch and play video games while we talk about it. Oh yes, we could do we gotta figure something out. We'll do video games and talk about like just off the cuff case and stuff, and then we can get the listeners and the viewers into it, they can bring up points and stuff too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:02:18 I think that would be a fun experience for everybody. Play some phasophobia while talking about ghosty stories. Yeah, we have to like we have to like walk outside of the of the house so we don't get murdered while we're trying to read a comment. I'm so in. Oh, I'm in. Okay. We're doing all right. That's our show, everybody. Thanks for hanging out. Bye, everybody.