Feb. 27, 2026

The Darkside of Music: Inside The Rise And Fall Of Pop’s Biggest Lip Sync Scandal

The Darkside of Music: Inside The Rise And Fall Of Pop’s Biggest Lip Sync Scandal

Send in your music story! A skipped lyric on live TV, a stunned crowd, and a pop empire built on a voice the stars didn’t sing—few stories grip music fans like Millie Vanilli’s. We pull back the curtain on how two magnetic performers became the faces of chart-topping hits, why a producer gambled on deception, and what really happens behind the scenes when image outruns honesty. From MTV dominance to a revoked Grammy, we revisit the flashpoint and the fallout—and the real vocalists who were le...

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Send in your music story!

A skipped lyric on live TV, a stunned crowd, and a pop empire built on a voice the stars didn’t sing—few stories grip music fans like Millie Vanilli’s. We pull back the curtain on how two magnetic performers became the faces of chart-topping hits, why a producer gambled on deception, and what really happens behind the scenes when image outruns honesty. From MTV dominance to a revoked Grammy, we revisit the flashpoint and the fallout—and the real vocalists who were left in the dark.

We also zoom out to the modern playbook: manufactured groups, collaborative writing rooms, studio perfection, and the rise of live tech. Backing tracks, in-ear monitors, click guides, and tasteful autotune can elevate a show when used to translate the record to the stage. Where’s the line between enhancement and fraud? Intention and transparency. If a singer sings and credits are clear, technology is craft. If a face fronts someone else’s voice, that’s a breach of trust and a theft of credit.

Along the way, we talk ethics, pressure, and the human cost. Rob Pilatus’s tragic decline and Fab Morvan’s return to the craft reveal how fame without foundation collapses under scrutiny. We examine producer Frank Farian’s central role and ask how today’s tools—AI voice cloning, real-time tuning, algorithm-driven discovery—reshape the same old incentives. The beauty bias still lingers, but access has changed the game: independent artists can build loyal audiences with honesty, skill, and smart use of technology.

If you care about live performance, studio polish, songwriting credits, and what authenticity should mean in 2026, this conversation is for you. Listen, share with a music-obsessed friend, and tell us where you draw the line. Subscribe, leave a review, and drop your take—we’ll feature the sharpest replies on a future show.

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00:00 - Cold Open & Lip Sync Confessions

05:30 - Music Videos, Clicks, And Multiple Takes

10:54 - Setting The Stage For Millie Vanilli

14:24 - Hits, Accents, And Early Red Flags

18:54 - Manufactured Bands And Songwriting Teams

25:04 - Credit, Honesty, And Industry Pressure

30:34 - The MTV Malfunction That Exposed It All

35:44 - Fallout, Lawsuits, And A Revoked Grammy

40:34 - Live TV, Lip Sync Rules, And SNL Moments

46:04 - Backing Tracks, In-Ears, And Modern Live Sound

51:34 - Live Autotune, Standards, And Fairness

58:34 - Responsibility: Artists vs Producer

01:04:04 - AI, Image-First Aesthetics, And Access

01:08:04 - Algorithms, Repetition, And Breaking The Cycle

WEBVTT

00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:13.359
What is up, everybody?

00:00:13.519 --> 00:00:15.919
Welcome back to the dark side of music.

00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:19.679
I am Harley and joined by Danny.

00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:21.120
Um everybody.

00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:27.440
This week we're going a little lighter than the previous two weeks.

00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:35.280
Um Danny, you probably have more experience with this than I do as far as lip syncing.

00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:35.679
Yeah.

00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:38.880
Have you done your fair share of lip syncing?

00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:44.240
Uh honestly, I can say I I I've never lip synced live.

00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:51.600
The only time I've ever done it, and it's so weird, it's so difficult to actually do that, is is uh filming music videos.

00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:53.119
The only time I've ever done it.

00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:56.079
And it's just like I still end up singing.

00:00:56.399 --> 00:01:03.280
So like if we were doing that for a crowd, they would still the front couple rows would still hear me sing, uh like regardless type of thing.

00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:09.920
So I would not do the intensity and and make it look like I was actually doing it without actually you know having stuff come out basically.

00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:14.560
When when you guys do the music videos, are the instruments actually playing too?

00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:19.120
Or is it just so it's just you singing and just quiet instruments?

00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:26.480
Yeah, everybody's you still have the click click click click click click click click click click click right, and then you have to like put pads on all the drums so that he can still hit it.

00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:28.799
Like at the same time we just did this for the Christmas music video.

00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:34.640
Yeah, it's like bizarre, and not only that, but we were in like a house, so like everything's bouncing off.

00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:40.959
So all you hear is like me just yelling the entire time and and the drums, but like super muffled drums, but that's it.

00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:47.200
So what I would give for that raw audio, that's gotta be so fun to watch.

00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:51.840
It's locked, it's locked away in a vault that no one will ever see or hear it.

00:01:52.640 --> 00:02:05.200
I I have never done it other than um you do you remember before TikTok there was like a like a lip sync app.

00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:21.280
No, yeah, it was such a short, yeah, it was such a short little period of time um where like you could click a sound and you had to lip sync that sound, and it would make just this little video.

00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:23.919
And my wife and I used to do it.

00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:27.360
It was very fun, but it was such a short period.

00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:30.639
I mean, it was I was like 20, I think.

00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:31.120
Huh?

00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:40.240
So it was it was like six months of just me sending random videos of me lip syncing random scenes from from shows.

00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:43.120
We did a lot of the office, we did a lot of Scooby-Doo.

00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:44.479
Well, see, that's fun.

00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:46.639
That's fun lip syncing and stuff like that.

00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:52.319
Like I I could get into that because I I think that would be that would be goofy, that would be fun.

00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:58.560
I I would be in, but like, yeah, it thinking about it from a from a a a singing standpoint.

00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:05.199
I just I don't think I could make it look like I was actually doing it without actually doing it.

00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:09.120
Because I don't think about what I look like when I'm doing it, like you, you know what I mean?

00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:09.439
Right.

00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:11.120
It sounds really weird to say it that way.

00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:13.919
I don't think about what it looks like when I'm singing when I'm singing.

00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:16.479
That's a little less of a way to say that.

00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:21.360
But but yeah, I I don't think I could, I don't think I could fake it to look at it.

00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:24.159
Did um did you guys have to do like multiple takes at all?

00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:24.800
Oh yeah.

00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:25.759
Are you kidding me?

00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:30.560
So the the video is part performance, part storyline, and stuff like that.

00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:32.800
The perfor we filmed them in two separate days.

00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:39.439
So we filmed the the performance day, that was it, and then we did the all the scenes and stuff that we edited together.

00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:47.360
Um, so we did the group one probably eight-ish times through the song.

00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:48.479
Wow.

00:03:48.719 --> 00:04:08.080
And then they took the camera, you know, off the the actual rig, and they're like running around with this like personal handheld rig, and they did like an individual one or two where they were only focused on one person, but everybody else saw how to play as if they were playing like normal, so that it could be cut interchangeably to like the solo shots and stuff like that.

00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:12.479
So then we went through like two of me, two of Justin, two of O'Neill.

00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:16.879
Like, yeah, it was I never wanted to hear it anymore after that.

00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:21.759
Like that, see, that would frustrate the hell out of me.

00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:27.040
That's why I don't think I could be an actor if somebody is just like, All right, I know you just read that, but let's do it one more time.

00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:28.800
All right, just one more time for me.

00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:34.240
All right, I know this is the 13th, but well, at least, yeah, they can ad ad lib those kind of things.

00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:46.959
Like you hear all these cool stories where they do it a couple times and and they like the the way it's written, and then if it's like a comedic actor or then they get to ad lib it one or two times and everybody just has to go with it, like that would be fun.

00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:51.600
But when you're doing a music video with the music is already there, yeah, you can't ad-lib anything.

00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:53.279
It's like this is it.

00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:58.240
Like, oh man, yeah, that would drive me up a wall.

00:04:58.480 --> 00:04:59.279
Yeah, yeah.

00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:00.000
It's fun.

00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:03.360
I mean, look, it beats any other kind of job.

00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:11.920
So, like, if if I ever get lucky enough that you know the band becomes the full-time job and stuff like that, I will you will never hear me complain.

00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:15.199
And I will make 50 music videos a year.

00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:17.439
You will never hear me complain.

00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:18.560
That's it.

00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:33.040
Honestly, if I if I ever had to like script a podcast, I would that would also drive me insane, you know, having to like read a scripted thing when we're just talking, you know.

00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:38.160
Well, clearly everybody can tell that we we don't script this one in case everyone's wondering.

00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:40.399
We got a little cheat sheet and that's about it.

00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.839
Like, but those are the fun ones, it's just a conversation, like yeah, absolutely.

00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:44.639
Exactly.

00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:50.959
So so this week we're talking about one of the most famous limps lip sync.

00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:55.040
I the whole for a long part of my life I said lip sync.

00:05:55.360 --> 00:06:00.879
So I'm really trying to nail this lip sync episodes in music history.

00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:02.319
Millie Vanilli.

00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:06.480
How familiar with Milly Vanilli were you prior to this?

00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:20.319
I mean, I knew I mean I I knew of this, and I knew of them because of this, and I knew I I knew one song by them, and not not even because I thought maybe I knew the second one, but girl, you know it's true.

00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:21.439
I know I've heard that.

00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:37.839
And I I may have heard it when I was like really young, but like not during the time that it was like this whole thing was going on, but like I may have heard it that like at some point, but um, have you ever watched the TV show The Goldbergs?

00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:39.120
Yes, yes.

00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:42.240
Do you remember they did an episode on this?

00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:49.920
That's where I really remember it from, which is I I feel bad that that's where I actually like remember it from, but they actually did that in an episode.

00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:56.720
Um, so that's where I remember it from, like just most recently, I guess, because that that used to be one of my comfort shows.

00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:01.120
I just put it on and let it roll through all the seasons and then start it over, type of thing.

00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:10.879
But but yeah, it it this this Millie Vanilli, you know, was not a band I listened to, you know, ever up until the the Goldbergs episode.

00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:16.079
So before that, yeah, I genuinely thought Millie Vanilli was a lady.

00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:18.240
I thought it was a one lady.

00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:25.360
I was convinced that the story was about a single lady who got in trouble for lip syncing her music.

00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:28.000
And her first name was Millie, and her first name.

00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:29.360
Yeah.

00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:37.120
So full disclosure, we're way too far into adulthood.

00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:38.639
I thought that was the truth.

00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:42.800
I mean, look, it's fair.

00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:44.959
At least look, you knew the scandal.

00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:53.600
You still you still knew I I I think you get you get a lot of credit that you knew the scandal versus the the actual people that were involved with it.

00:07:53.839 --> 00:08:00.319
Well, and I knew the scandal um from the from the take of like public opinion.

00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:06.639
Yeah, but after doing a deep dive on this, my opinions have completely changed.

00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:07.199
How about you?

00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:07.759
Really?

00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:16.000
Yeah um I'm torn because you know, I mean, we could get right into it.

00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:19.279
I I could talk about that, or do you want to do you want to give me some info about it?

00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:21.759
Um uh let's I guess let's give the info.

00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:27.040
So um in the late 80s, uh pop music was starting to explode.

00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:34.639
Um Enters the scene, Millie Vanilli, a German band, I believe.

00:08:34.879 --> 00:09:05.279
They were they were German dancers and performers who were signed by an executive who pitched them to the US and they came to America and began performing as musicians under a different name, not Mill Millie Vanilli, and then they became Millie Vanilli um in the early 80s.

00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:08.639
That's kind of the gist of of the background.

00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:29.600
I I'm trying to avoid giving the names of the of the other two guys involved in the situation yet, uh, because I know we're gonna be diving into that here in a little bit, but um Rob Pilatus and Fab Morvan uh are the names of the artists formerly known as Millie Vanilli.

00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:44.240
And they had a debut album called Girl You Know It's True, produced by multiple hit singles or produced multiple hit singles called Girl You Know It to Be True, uh Blame It on the Rain, and Baby Don't Forget My Number.

00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:49.600
Uh Girl You Know It's True is the only song that I had ever known.

00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:50.000
Yeah.

00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:52.559
I may have heard Blame It on the Rain.

00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:57.279
And and like I said, not because of like listening to it.

00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:04.159
Just I I it sounds familiar, and I I'm like, in the grand scheme of things, I may have heard it at some point.

00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:16.000
Girl You Know It's True, I know I've heard, and you know, most recently because of the Goldbergs episode, because they actually did that on the on one of the episodes type of thing, or they featured the song, I think, on the episode, or yep, yep.

00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:17.919
So it was something like that, but yeah.

00:10:45.530 --> 00:10:56.970
So I feel like I I heard it in passing because I listened to a lot of VH1 classics like countdowns, and I feel like it was probably on one of those 80s countdowns at some point, yeah.

00:10:57.290 --> 00:10:57.770
Right.

00:10:58.410 --> 00:11:14.170
Or you get like yeah, like those those, you know, deep dives into I feel like every once in a while I scroll on TikTok and I'll get like classic TV stories about stuff, and I know I saw a couple on TikTok about Millie Vanilli and going through like that.

00:11:14.250 --> 00:11:15.290
So right.

00:11:16.410 --> 00:11:30.009
So the success began uh late 80s, they were heavily featured on MTV, consistent on the radio, uh, major tours and television appearances.

00:11:30.250 --> 00:11:44.090
They won three American music awards, including the 1990 Grammy Award for Best New Artist, which is where the biggest controversy begins.

00:11:44.410 --> 00:11:45.050
Yes.

00:11:45.610 --> 00:11:47.530
I'll let you take it off from there, Danny.

00:11:47.610 --> 00:11:49.210
You you go ahead.

00:11:50.570 --> 00:12:01.690
So I I mean they basically they they were doing this thing where you know the the two main guys, Rob and and Fab, were not singing.

00:12:01.850 --> 00:12:05.610
And what what's even weirder is they talked.

00:12:05.770 --> 00:12:12.090
Like it's not like they were just silent performers, like they spoke and they spoke with heavy accents.

00:12:12.330 --> 00:12:12.570
Right.

00:12:12.890 --> 00:12:16.730
So like people like that should have been like the first sign.

00:12:16.970 --> 00:12:18.330
Like something something's a little weird here.

00:12:18.410 --> 00:12:47.530
Like there's there's one thing, like, I I've seen plenty of you know, like UK artists and and uh even like like um Japanese artists and stuff like that, they'll learn like covers of of American songs and somehow be able to actually cover it by the sound, not exactly the words, and so they can make it sound more more or less like the original, like like it's as if it's American English, like definitely.

00:12:47.850 --> 00:12:48.170
Right.

00:12:49.050 --> 00:13:05.050
But they're speaking English, but they just have a very thick accent, so it's very difficult for them to be singing their own written songs, technically, and have no accent coming through in their singing voices at all.

00:13:05.210 --> 00:13:07.450
Because when you're covering something, it's different.

00:13:07.530 --> 00:13:18.330
You can learn the inflections, you can do that, but when you're writing it, you're not gonna write it in a like perfectly no accent vacuum, right?

00:13:18.810 --> 00:13:29.370
Well, and and that's the thing with this story, is like it opened up so much more of the industry to me than I ever knew beforehand.

00:13:29.610 --> 00:13:34.410
Like they no spoiler alert, they didn't write the songs.

00:13:34.650 --> 00:13:43.450
Yeah, the songs were presented to them that weren't really musicians originally, they were just two hot German dudes.

00:13:43.770 --> 00:13:47.290
Well, that look look look, this is nothing new.

00:13:47.450 --> 00:13:49.050
We're they're still doing the music industry.

00:13:50.890 --> 00:13:56.410
Now, it might not be you know lip syncing and and the the people that they're picking having no talent.

00:13:56.490 --> 00:14:00.570
I think we've I think the music industry has evolved on that fact.

00:14:00.730 --> 00:14:03.370
I mean, look, look at it as like InSync and Backstreet Boys.

00:14:03.770 --> 00:14:21.850
In sync and Backstreet Boys are manufactured boy bands, yes, but they can actually sing, like they they can, they have those voices, and that's why you know some of those members have gone on to have solo careers, like Justin Timberlake and and even JC, I think from from InSync also, you know, had had a small thing.

00:14:22.090 --> 00:14:23.370
So they have the talent.

00:14:23.450 --> 00:14:29.450
They've gotten the the music industry has gotten smarter in those aspects, but they definitely, those were manufactured bands.

00:14:29.610 --> 00:14:35.210
There were plenty of manufactured, you know, female pop stars and and stuff like that with the same kind of idea.

00:14:35.370 --> 00:14:53.290
There were TV shows like where it was like Nick and the band, where we're gonna put it together and write you songs and but even even now, like we have plenty of you know artists, major, major artists that have 18 people writing a song, a single song.

00:14:53.530 --> 00:14:54.570
Oh yeah, yeah.

00:14:54.730 --> 00:14:57.690
Yeah, which is crazy to think of.

00:14:57.850 --> 00:15:13.610
Like I I'm I I will, you know, I'll I'll never say like, you know, it's garbage because so many people were writing it or or anything like that, because I, you know, I would love to, you know, be up, I love the the writing process and and not doing it alone.

00:15:13.690 --> 00:15:19.930
I'm I'm not the person that will sit there and and like isolate myself for two weeks and come back with five new songs or anything like that.

00:15:20.170 --> 00:15:21.770
I like that give and take.

00:15:22.009 --> 00:15:27.210
So like the idea of working with someone to write music, I think is awesome.

00:15:27.370 --> 00:15:28.410
Like oh yeah.

00:15:28.650 --> 00:15:41.610
Whether it's an outside source that is just like, I know how to write this, like give me your ideas and I'll, you know, let's let's collab type of thing, or whether it's like just your band members and bandmates, and we sit together and we go, okay, this is my idea.

00:15:41.690 --> 00:15:42.250
What do you want to?

00:15:42.490 --> 00:15:43.530
Can you build more from this?

00:15:43.610 --> 00:15:45.610
And then some like same thing, like give and take.

00:15:45.690 --> 00:15:50.890
Like, we're actually, you know, spoiler alert, we're writing new music right now, and we're doing that exactly.

00:15:51.050 --> 00:15:57.690
We're doing it literally piece by piece, riff, and then you know, melody, and then like more pieces are getting put together.

00:15:57.850 --> 00:16:00.090
It's one of the greatest processes ever.

00:16:00.250 --> 00:16:14.009
So, like, yeah, there's goods and bads with you know having multiple people write on music, but like the major, major, major, you know, music industry people write have ghostwriters for everything.

00:16:14.170 --> 00:16:17.450
Oh, and that's where I think it's like that's where they've evolved to.

00:16:17.530 --> 00:16:19.450
This is just the precursor to all of that.

00:16:19.530 --> 00:16:30.810
Like, well, and and the industry, like, why is it that the music industry seems to be the only industry that targets collaboration as a negative?

00:16:31.290 --> 00:16:46.330
Like, if you're in a in a business atmosphere and you're tasked with uh uh designing a new product, you have a team, you sit in a room, you collaborate ideas and and figure stuff out.

00:16:46.490 --> 00:16:51.129
Like, why why would we not treat music any differently?

00:16:51.290 --> 00:16:53.129
Like you should welcome it.

00:16:53.450 --> 00:16:55.530
Yeah, I I definitely welcome it.

00:16:55.610 --> 00:17:08.490
And like I said, I no no you know shade to any artists that you know work with outside groups to to help or an outside producer for ideas, if they give them their ideas for them to build on.

00:17:08.730 --> 00:17:21.609
I just think the music industry, not not the artists themselves, the music industry is where the problem is because they are this giant machine that has to pump out hits every year.

00:17:21.849 --> 00:17:30.490
So if you are so big that anything you put your name on is gonna be big, then the music industry just says, We're gonna handle it.

00:17:30.569 --> 00:17:32.330
Like we're doing all of this type of thing.

00:17:32.410 --> 00:17:52.809
And I think it's just that is the negative side of how like it, and then like I said, it I think it started started out in this decade, and and that's probably where like the trial and errors, like, hey, let's not, you know, have the have them not be able to sing at all, or let's not have them, you know, lip-syncing for everything, type of thing.

00:17:52.890 --> 00:18:00.890
Like they need to they need to be able to sing, but we can manufacture what they're singing, or we can manufacture, you know, putting the actual group together and and stuff like that.

00:18:00.970 --> 00:18:05.610
They've basically evolved every, you know, every decade to type a thing.

00:18:05.850 --> 00:18:12.809
And that's where I think like is number one, it gets the negative from, but also I think that is the the negative side of it.

00:18:12.970 --> 00:18:22.009
Because I think just like you said, I think collaboration and I think you know, working together and having a team to write and put out the best product, I think is a definitely a good thing.

00:18:22.490 --> 00:18:34.330
Um, but I think what skews is because you know the music industry, just like you know, a ton of other industries, is you know, they just want to make more money and make more money and make more money.

00:18:34.410 --> 00:18:35.529
Like right, you know what I mean.

00:18:35.850 --> 00:19:05.930
For for me, the issue becomes the dishonest part of it, where it's like if you're just open about it, like I feel like if this whole Millie Vanilli situation, if they if they could go back in time and just straight out of the gate be like, hey, we are Millie Vanilli, but we have these two guys that also work with us and and actually sing the songs and we perform them, I feel like you wouldn't really have this issue at all.

00:19:06.170 --> 00:19:17.769
Same thing with artists, like nothing is more disheartening than when you find out that an artist put that they wrote something, and you you and I both know music is so personal.

00:19:17.930 --> 00:19:28.009
So when you're like listening to a song and you're you're trying to tell an artist, hey, like you don't know how much your words have impacted my day-to-day life, yeah.

00:19:28.330 --> 00:19:31.610
People all the time will say, like, that song saved my life.

00:19:31.930 --> 00:19:42.970
To find out that the person you're saying that to had nothing to do with this song, but when you go on the credits, you can't find the person that did have something to do with that.

00:19:43.130 --> 00:19:45.210
That's when it becomes a problem for me, right?

00:19:45.450 --> 00:19:45.610
Right.

00:19:45.850 --> 00:19:46.650
Yeah, yeah.

00:19:46.890 --> 00:19:49.130
Um, that is not this situation, though.

00:19:49.370 --> 00:19:53.690
This situation uh see the same thing.

00:19:53.769 --> 00:20:04.250
I'm kind of torn, but I truly my opinion is I blame the the record executives and the industry people.

00:20:04.410 --> 00:20:08.250
I don't blame Rob or Fab for this.

00:20:08.650 --> 00:20:18.569
They were the product, they came over here anticipating on being musicians and got told, hey guys, we think you're great.

00:20:18.890 --> 00:20:26.730
However, we're gonna have some other guys sing your music and you're just gonna perform it and don't say a word.

00:20:27.769 --> 00:20:32.410
So I think look, I think I I agree with you to a point.

00:20:32.650 --> 00:20:43.610
I think you know, the the people, the people in charge flashed a whole bunch of money, said we're gonna make you famous, and we're gonna do all this stuff.

00:20:44.730 --> 00:20:54.730
And they may have been like, Oh, I don't know, like this is like, you know, but like eventually, you know, some that they agreed.

00:20:54.809 --> 00:20:55.690
So like that's true.

00:20:56.009 --> 00:20:56.970
They knew what they were agreeing.

00:20:57.289 --> 00:21:03.769
It wasn't like they were singing into a microphone and then it was being put into a machine and then pumped out perfectly, type type of thing.

00:21:03.930 --> 00:21:06.170
Like, they're not singing at all, and they knew it.

00:21:06.330 --> 00:21:08.490
So partial responsibility.

00:21:08.650 --> 00:21:15.450
I think they got pushed into it and and said, like, no, if you you will be nothing without the like you know what I mean.

00:21:15.529 --> 00:21:18.650
Like, I think they broke them down and and and stuff like that.

00:21:18.809 --> 00:21:27.210
Like, everybody, you know, you flash dollar signs and say, I'm we're gonna make you famous and popular and all this stuff, then then that's one thing.

00:21:27.289 --> 00:21:32.569
But I mean, there there are you know stuff where they pushed back, like they they were like, no, we well, we want to sing.

00:21:32.650 --> 00:21:34.090
Like, can we can we try to sing?

00:21:34.250 --> 00:21:34.970
Stuff like that.

00:21:35.130 --> 00:21:45.930
Um, so I I don't think they felt great about it, which I I completely understand, and I think that shows that they it's not them fully to blame.

00:21:46.090 --> 00:21:48.730
So, like, like I said, I I agree with you to a point.

00:21:48.890 --> 00:21:50.730
Um, but they agreed ultimately.

00:21:50.970 --> 00:21:53.529
Yeah, you are uh you're 100% right, dude.

00:21:53.769 --> 00:22:11.529
So in the grand scheme of things, I it's it's definitely more the the the you know the industry that that was like now we're gonna make this whole you know fake thing, but but also you know I think they got they got pushed into it and and they reluctantly were like, yeah, we're gonna do this.

00:22:11.610 --> 00:22:12.410
Like right.

00:22:12.970 --> 00:22:14.330
Um yeah.

00:22:14.809 --> 00:22:19.289
So they uh the the deception side.

00:22:19.610 --> 00:22:21.930
So basically Millie and Vanilli.

00:22:23.850 --> 00:22:46.730
Uh so you Have Rob and Fab, and they were tasked with hey, you guys are going to be the face, and we're gonna hire some session singers um to sing the music, and uh you're going to perform it, and we're gonna pay you a large amount of money, right?

00:22:47.130 --> 00:22:50.650
Um, and you're right, they 100% agreed to that.

00:22:51.130 --> 00:22:58.009
Uh the producer, Frank Farion is his name.

00:22:58.250 --> 00:23:07.049
Um I I feel that it's important to put his name out there given what he did.

00:23:07.930 --> 00:23:23.769
I think if if in a in a court of law, if we were to be like, okay, these guys did agree, but who orchestrated, I feel like his name is the one that you kind of bounce back to.

00:23:24.250 --> 00:23:47.370
Um so yeah, like you said, they had the the accents was a big giveaway, uh flawless vocals on the actual album, no live singing during the performances, and lip syncing at every concert and TV appearance, which honestly you did some lip syncing.

00:23:47.769 --> 00:23:55.610
How impressive to be able to like at every performance, you need to be able to nail this perfectly.

00:24:06.009 --> 00:24:11.769
I saw a video of them sitting and talking to a lady and then jumping into song.

00:24:12.170 --> 00:24:23.289
That is some very impressive, well-thought out, orchestrated uh decision making on the on the part of the entire industry.

00:24:23.529 --> 00:24:26.809
Because at that point, like how many people knew about this?

00:24:26.890 --> 00:24:27.529
You know what I mean?

00:24:27.610 --> 00:24:30.330
Like, there's so many people that had to know.

00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:44.890
And I I mean the other thing is like one of one of those three examples that you gave, like a band that does or an artist that that has to do one of those three isn't on the same level as Millie Vanilli.

00:24:45.130 --> 00:24:51.769
Because like there are you know places where you have to lip sync like a concert.

00:24:51.930 --> 00:24:54.009
Like, I think you have to lip sync on at the Super Bowl.

00:24:54.090 --> 00:24:54.890
Like everybody reads the colour.

00:24:57.130 --> 00:24:57.370
Right.

00:24:57.930 --> 00:25:00.410
M T V Music Awards, yeah, they all require it.

00:25:00.650 --> 00:25:06.490
And I think I think you get the choice at SNL because we did have that Ashley Simpson.

00:25:06.569 --> 00:25:07.769
Um yeah.

00:25:08.410 --> 00:25:10.890
Where she said the only I mean, I don't know this.

00:25:10.970 --> 00:25:15.049
I we don't know the real story because I'm I don't know Ashley Simpson personally.

00:25:15.210 --> 00:25:29.049
Um, but I she was said she said in interviews after the reason that she did opt to lip sync is because she was having like a lot of problems with her her voice, like her voice, she lost her voice, she was getting sick, right?

00:25:29.450 --> 00:25:30.170
Something like that.

00:25:30.330 --> 00:25:32.330
Um, so I guess they're given the option.

00:25:32.490 --> 00:25:40.970
I know there's plenty of artists that probably have done you know regular live performances on SNL and and stuff like that, because you can kind of tell it's not perfect.

00:25:41.130 --> 00:25:41.690
Oh yeah.

00:25:41.850 --> 00:25:42.970
Um stuff like that.

00:25:43.130 --> 00:25:50.650
But like, yeah, I mean there there are plenty of places where it has to be lip sync, like lip sync has to be used and and and stuff like that.

00:25:50.730 --> 00:26:05.450
And there, you know, there are performances that like you know, whether or not, you know, or or situations like if if you're you know you want the show to go on, I could see some singers, you know, being like, hey, I'm I'm a little rough.

00:26:05.529 --> 00:26:11.049
I'm gonna need, you know, some some help tonight, like with some stuff, like you know, stuff stuff like that.

00:26:11.210 --> 00:26:20.970
And I mean, I've never, you know, obviously lip, like I said, I've never lip synced live, and I I never plan to, but even even with me, I I can feel it in my voice.

00:26:21.049 --> 00:26:26.090
Like if I'm getting over something or or something like that, I'm like, this is gonna be a little bit of a struggle.

00:26:26.250 --> 00:26:38.890
I can only imagine what it's like when you're you know, that's your full-time job and and stuff like that, and you're like, I can't not do the show, so like we need to we need to do something here.

00:26:39.049 --> 00:26:48.730
Like, so well, and and there in those certain situations, like there have been cases where the reason we found out about those is because of artists not doing it.

00:26:48.970 --> 00:26:52.250
Nirvana famously was like, We're not doing it.

00:26:52.490 --> 00:26:58.410
Um, Eminem famously went on TV and just held the microphone up during his set.

00:26:58.569 --> 00:27:04.410
So, like, but I do understand the venue too, because I've looked into that before as well.

00:27:05.049 --> 00:27:07.130
Specifically the Grammys.

00:27:07.610 --> 00:27:20.730
Um there's an issue with the live broadcasting and utilizing live vocals, like there's a feedback issue in the room that it would mess up the audio.

00:27:21.210 --> 00:27:24.809
So in order to broadcast it, they do that.

00:27:25.130 --> 00:27:28.330
Um, but I'm sure that there are ways around, you know what I mean?

00:27:28.410 --> 00:27:36.490
Like you could you could broadcast the the lip-synced version, whoa, every time super dramatic.

00:27:37.210 --> 00:27:59.690
You can lip sync the uh the broadcasted version um to the crowd, which would in turn make it to where like the audience at home gets a a good show per se, and you wouldn't have to worry about it as much live, you know.

00:27:59.850 --> 00:28:11.049
But I do understand that like then the audience at home, like the vocals won't match up, or God forbid an artist does something out of the norm of the the track, right?

00:28:11.450 --> 00:28:14.970
So I get it, like it's it's very complicated.

00:28:15.130 --> 00:28:16.250
It's it's Hollywood.

00:28:16.490 --> 00:28:35.289
Yeah, it's it's interesting because I I mean I was a big I I've even I on a very small scale, and I'm not comparing myself to any of these major artists, even I'm not even comparing myself to Millie Vanilli, because I I mean they were wildly more successful in in their their short career than than I have gotten to yet.

00:28:35.450 --> 00:28:36.970
Like you know what I mean, stuff like that.

00:28:37.130 --> 00:28:42.170
So in no way am I comparing myself to to to bigger artists and stuff because I'm not there yet.

00:28:42.330 --> 00:29:12.730
I'd I'd like to be one day, but anyway, um I at at certain times in in my musical career didn't like I started as like uh I don't even use use earplugs, I don't use anything, backing tracks, I don't use anything to now I use in-ear monitors so I can I can customize my mix, I can raise or lower myself, I can do raise or lower anybody else I want to in my own ears, no one's hearing it.

00:29:12.890 --> 00:29:18.650
Um, and then we've also just started implementing backing tracks, and it I think they're great.

00:29:18.809 --> 00:29:25.529
Like we have to we sound so much more, and and I mean we're we're pop punk band.

00:29:25.690 --> 00:29:26.490
Like, you know what I mean?

00:29:26.569 --> 00:29:38.730
Like we're not I'm not talking like we're we're adding in like crazy stuff or or anything like that, but like you know, we're adding in you know, extra like synths, because we don't have a synth player, like but they're on right, they're on our album and stuff like that.

00:29:38.809 --> 00:29:44.170
So like we have backing tracks for synths now, and so like the song sounds way fuller and it sounds like really cool.

00:29:44.330 --> 00:29:55.850
And then like parts like in our song Autumn's Over, we have that interlude that's kind of got really spacey and has a lot of backing vocal tracks and and stuff like that that we just couldn't do because there was only three of us doing vocals.

00:29:56.009 --> 00:30:04.490
Now we have those punched in, and and then we hit our spot in in those vocals, and but there's like five other people's vocals hitting.

00:30:04.569 --> 00:30:09.130
Like, I mean, there's still us, but there's five different versions of us like hitting them all at the same time.

00:30:09.289 --> 00:30:15.370
So now I've gone completely to the other side of like I need my inner monitors so I can adjust my mix.

00:30:15.450 --> 00:30:31.850
I need the back we not me personally, but everybody in the band agrees that like it just sounds so much fuller, well-rounded, and just you know, it's so much more of like a performance than just us standing up there playing the bare bones version of the song.

00:30:32.009 --> 00:30:49.529
Now it's like right, you know, it's like it's oomph, it's got like that kick in when it needs to have like extra oomph, and other times it's not because we don't need that extra part, like well, and and there's that weird stereotype of like using these tools pull away from the authenticity, and it's just wrong.

00:30:49.690 --> 00:30:50.410
Like, right.

00:30:50.569 --> 00:31:05.049
I think that it's an outdated mindset, and honestly, like you put so much work into crafting the track, you're you're doing the audience a disservice by not being able to include it.

00:31:05.210 --> 00:31:05.769
Right, you know what I mean?

00:31:05.850 --> 00:31:09.529
It's like you're doing it for the sound that you cultivated on that track.

00:31:09.690 --> 00:31:15.850
Yeah, you it's it would be one thing if you were just like uh we we make up stuff in the back and somebody figures it out on the back end.

00:31:16.090 --> 00:31:23.049
Like, no, you you did this in a studio, you said this is what we want it to sound like, yeah, and you want to deliver that to the fans.

00:31:23.210 --> 00:31:29.690
And I I think that most of the industry understands that now, you know, like that's just how it's supposed to be.

00:31:30.009 --> 00:31:46.009
I think now, now that people are able to, you know, put music together now that the tech has kind of caught up with this kind of stuff, I think it's it's way more acceptable and it's stuff, and then and like I said, I had to kind of evolve into, you know, like this is what I want to do now.

00:31:46.090 --> 00:31:56.009
I want to be able to hear myself at this volume in my ears, I want to be able to hear everybody else, I want to be able to hear a click every once in a while, like in certain spots, and you know, everything like that.

00:31:56.090 --> 00:31:59.450
But like I had to get to that point, right?

00:31:59.610 --> 00:32:02.170
I didn't go, you know, zero to that.

00:32:02.330 --> 00:32:05.130
Like I had to like really go, okay.

00:32:05.769 --> 00:32:07.769
Will it sound better if I can hear myself?

00:32:07.930 --> 00:32:09.210
Yeah, it probably will.

00:32:09.370 --> 00:32:21.210
Like, and and honestly, like I feel like nine times out of ten, uh, at least in my case, um, a lot of that stems from not financially being able to be the band.

00:32:21.769 --> 00:32:27.850
You try and convince yourself that it's lame or it's less authentic because you're like, I can't, I can't afford that tech.

00:32:28.170 --> 00:32:28.490
Yeah.

00:32:28.730 --> 00:32:31.370
So you're like, Yeah, I definitely couldn't.

00:32:31.529 --> 00:32:33.049
I mean, I got very lucky.

00:32:33.130 --> 00:32:38.970
And I I mean, shout out to all of my band members because everybody brings in something special.

00:32:39.049 --> 00:32:46.090
Like, but like, yeah, one of one of our band members had the rig already, like that you need for it in your system.

00:32:46.170 --> 00:32:50.330
So all we had to do was get our own in your like the actual part that goes in your ears and stuff like that.

00:32:50.650 --> 00:32:55.130
So like that's only you know a small sum in the grand scheme of things.

00:32:55.210 --> 00:32:57.610
You're not talking thousands, you're talking a couple hundred, like, yeah.

00:32:58.410 --> 00:33:00.170
So yeah, yeah.

00:33:00.650 --> 00:33:05.690
So all of the smaller artists out there, just just let everybody do their thing, man.

00:33:05.769 --> 00:33:06.250
It's okay.

00:33:06.410 --> 00:33:07.049
Yeah.

00:33:08.170 --> 00:33:10.170
Um and be open to evolving.

00:33:10.250 --> 00:33:10.890
That's all I'm saying.

00:33:10.970 --> 00:33:21.610
We're not talking about lip sync at shows or anything like that, but just be open to evolving your sound and evolving what you're using to get to your sound and and stuff like that.

00:33:21.769 --> 00:33:26.090
Because I would love to be able to stand on stage and play synth, synth, and sing everything.

00:33:26.890 --> 00:33:29.769
I don't even know how to, I don't even play synth on the on the album.

00:33:29.850 --> 00:33:30.809
That is all Justin.

00:33:30.890 --> 00:33:33.210
I will give him 100% of the credit for synths.

00:33:33.450 --> 00:33:34.730
He's insane.

00:33:35.610 --> 00:33:37.930
Any instrument he picks up, he's in he's insane about.

00:33:38.090 --> 00:33:46.809
I know this is an interview for for me or for for the band or anything like that, but in in full transparency of wanting to you know give credit where credit's due.

00:33:47.049 --> 00:33:52.730
Like the synth part, like there was actually a conversation of hey Danny, would you ever want to learn synth?

00:33:52.970 --> 00:34:01.210
And I was like, I mean, absolutely, I'd love to, but we're talking that's a a couple years process before I'm doing that and singing all the songs at the same time.

00:34:01.370 --> 00:34:04.410
Like, yeah, this isn't gonna happen like tomorrow.

00:34:04.569 --> 00:34:18.569
Um, but like, yeah, he he's he's a madman at any instrument he picks up, and yeah, all all the synth, any synth track that you hear on on any of our songs and live at our shows now, um, all come from Justin's brain, and he's incredible at it.

00:34:18.650 --> 00:34:19.769
So all credit to him.

00:34:20.329 --> 00:34:32.329
Speaking of uh lip syncing, lip syncing events, yes, the moment that everything turned to shit for Millie Vanilli.

00:34:33.049 --> 00:34:52.009
Um so the day is July 21st, 1989, during the MTV concert in Connecticut, I believe it was the MTV Awards, um, while performing Girl You Know It's True, the backing track malfunctioned and began repeating the same line over and over.

00:34:52.250 --> 00:34:52.569
I know.

00:34:52.649 --> 00:34:56.730
In the grand scheme of things, this that that has to be terrifying.

00:34:56.889 --> 00:35:04.889
Like, I just don't like I I like I said, I've you know never lip synced to any like lip sunk is the past sense.

00:35:05.049 --> 00:35:06.730
Lip right, sunk to anything.

00:35:06.889 --> 00:35:11.769
Um, but yeah, the sheer panic and terror that must come over them.

00:35:11.929 --> 00:35:15.849
Like, oh, I can't even have you ever seen the the movie The Rocker?

00:35:16.329 --> 00:35:19.449
Yes, oh I love that it happens at the end of that, yeah.

00:35:19.529 --> 00:35:20.969
And then I forgot about that.

00:35:21.129 --> 00:35:23.129
Yeah, that's one of my favorite movies, by the way.

00:35:23.210 --> 00:35:28.329
Like it's oh but but uh yeah, like that you see that happen.

00:35:28.409 --> 00:35:30.969
It's it's it's basically a shot for shot of that.

00:35:31.210 --> 00:35:36.169
Like they're they're they're too old to be able to sing their their original tracks and stuff like that.

00:35:36.409 --> 00:35:43.609
So the artist, not not the the main group, but like the the the protect the the the antagonist, yep.

00:35:43.769 --> 00:35:52.649
And antagonist I always make antagonist group is is too old to be able to sing their own stuff, and so they're they're lip syncing to everything, and exactly the same thing happens.

00:35:52.730 --> 00:36:01.210
Like he drops his microphone and the vocals keep going, and then it gets stuck on a line as he's like kicking it around and trying to grab it, and then everyone just booze and they just walk off stage.

00:36:01.289 --> 00:36:06.329
Like what a great movie! All of them that movie's so good, dude.

00:36:07.449 --> 00:36:08.889
Uh Rain Wilson.

00:36:09.129 --> 00:36:10.089
Yeah, yeah.

00:36:10.329 --> 00:36:12.009
That's when I really started appreciating him.

00:36:12.089 --> 00:36:26.969
Like, I liked him as Dwight on The Office, but like you tend to like he's like the the the guy that's like going back and forth with Jim, and you kind of more always like Jim in those situations, but like that movie made me like Rain Wilson just as the character.

00:36:29.289 --> 00:36:30.569
Yeah, so good.

00:36:31.210 --> 00:36:37.449
Um, so yeah, Rob and Fab, they run off the stage, the crowd starts booing.

00:36:37.689 --> 00:36:43.929
Um, that pretty much solidified the end of their career.

00:36:44.089 --> 00:36:50.250
And again, we're talking about like so many people with the in in the industry had to have already known.

00:36:50.409 --> 00:36:50.730
Right.

00:36:51.049 --> 00:37:01.369
The rumors were spreading, people were questioning things about their performances, people were questioning why every time they were on TV they couldn't really talk.

00:37:01.689 --> 00:37:06.250
Um the industry tried to get ahead of it.

00:37:06.569 --> 00:37:42.649
They sent Rob and Fab back out uh a few weeks later to do uh interview on the situation, to which, interestingly enough, that we brought this up at the beginning, they uh uh uh announced that the reason that they use backing tracks was because they're German and speak English, and that this was their way of uh getting into American media while saying all of that in pure clean cut English.

00:37:45.369 --> 00:37:50.169
Like it's such a weird thing to do to be like, oh no, you don't understand.

00:37:50.409 --> 00:37:54.009
We can't speak English while speaking English.

00:37:54.250 --> 00:38:04.329
Yeah, this is the part where, like, we had already said it, this is the part where if they were just like, hey man, like let's just let us let us level with you.

00:38:04.569 --> 00:38:12.649
Someone offered us a crap ton of money to to, you know, because they thought we looked cool, which is absolutely true.

00:38:12.730 --> 00:38:16.409
There's like they they look they look awesome, like type of thing.

00:38:17.049 --> 00:38:24.969
Someone came up with this as a plan, and yes, our bad, we agreed, but like can you blame us?

00:38:25.129 --> 00:38:31.129
Like, you know, everybody out there has that little inkling of I would love to be famous, like like type of thing.

00:38:31.289 --> 00:38:44.329
And if somebody like backed into your driveway and was like, You're you're coming with me, like you're you're gonna be famous, like there's I think there's a chance, a chance that everybody's gonna say yes to that, like without without really hesitation.

00:38:44.489 --> 00:38:51.369
Um, but yeah, this this was the moment they could have like really been like, look, let's let's let us level with you.

00:38:51.449 --> 00:38:52.569
This is what happened.

00:38:52.889 --> 00:38:56.409
Yes, we're our bad, but like can you blame us?

00:38:56.569 --> 00:39:04.089
Like, and then I I feel like public perception of them as people would not have been as negative in this situation, type of thing.

00:39:04.409 --> 00:39:04.969
Absolutely.

00:39:05.129 --> 00:39:12.649
Well, and speaking of the the public eye, um this is when things really start to collapse.

00:39:12.730 --> 00:39:14.809
Like when it falls, it falls, man.

00:39:15.129 --> 00:39:24.409
So uh the session singer Charles Shaw had to publicly come out and be like, Hey, I'm the voice that you love, right?

00:39:24.569 --> 00:39:28.329
Which really like such a uh bad move to them, too.

00:39:28.489 --> 00:39:33.929
Like they were told they weren't hot enough to be famous, you know what I mean?

00:39:34.009 --> 00:39:43.689
Like the one guy was like a really big heavy set guy, and he was literally told, like, sorry, man, you're not hot enough to be on stage.

00:39:43.929 --> 00:39:55.289
Yeah, which is crazy because there are so many artists out there of every single like look, every single body type, every single anything now that you can think of.

00:39:55.449 --> 00:39:58.649
And if they have talent, that's it.

00:39:58.969 --> 00:40:01.689
You're gonna find an audience if you have talent, period.

00:40:01.929 --> 00:40:11.210
No matter what you look like at all, if if you have level of talent, you're going to find an audience that in that likes you for what you're doing, type of thing.

00:40:11.289 --> 00:40:28.409
And and so it's crazy that in that time someone could really convince someone who really had that talent that you need to hide yourself and only have like your product only be what visible is visible in public, type of thing.

00:40:28.569 --> 00:40:33.289
And so so he fights for the rights to his songs.

00:40:33.609 --> 00:40:44.409
Then you have uh Fab and Rob have to come out and start issuing uh returns on tickets and and issuing refunds on album sales.

00:40:44.569 --> 00:40:57.369
Yeah, and then from there, obviously the the public deemed them as uh frauds, so the backlash, I'm sure they got a lot of negativity on the streets.

00:40:57.529 --> 00:41:02.730
I'm sure every interview was revolving around that and and dissing on them.

00:41:02.889 --> 00:41:08.329
Um to top it all off, the the label dropped them.

00:41:08.569 --> 00:41:09.049
Right.

00:41:09.289 --> 00:41:14.169
So like they literally lost everything in it in an instant.

00:41:14.409 --> 00:41:14.730
Yeah.

00:41:15.049 --> 00:41:29.849
Um I know that we said that this was going to be the one that we kind of get away from from the death on, uh, but tragically, Rob did end up passing away at the age of I think it was 32.

00:41:30.169 --> 00:41:30.809
Oh wow.

00:41:30.969 --> 00:41:34.969
Um from alcohol and drug abuse.

00:41:35.129 --> 00:41:39.769
Uh and and his his mental state just never recovered from that.

00:41:40.089 --> 00:41:52.569
Um luckily uh Fab did go on to revitalize his music career, um, study music and and truly study songwriting and and start doing better.

00:41:52.889 --> 00:41:57.849
Um and and I believe he's still going at it today.

00:41:58.009 --> 00:41:58.489
Oh wow.

00:41:58.649 --> 00:42:00.649
Um, they had their Grammy revoked.

00:42:00.809 --> 00:42:01.049
Yep.

00:42:01.210 --> 00:42:11.129
Uh the album was pulled from the stores, tours were canceled, lawsuits were filed, and man, that that's crazy.

00:42:11.609 --> 00:42:15.529
And their name became synonymous with this event.

00:42:15.769 --> 00:42:21.769
This like if you say Millie Vanilli on the street, that's immediately what people say.

00:42:22.009 --> 00:42:22.250
Right.

00:42:22.409 --> 00:42:24.250
Oh, the the lip sync thing.

00:42:24.409 --> 00:42:25.289
Right, exactly.

00:42:25.529 --> 00:42:29.129
Like cool, yeah, that's intense.

00:42:29.369 --> 00:43:06.649
And I I I mean, look, it's really I can't imagine how that level uh of of be like being caught at that that level to not be able like to I can't imagine you know being able to to go look this was our bad, like and and be able to especially because you know, just like you were saying, I'm sure behind the scenes they were being pressured to say only you know certain things because they were trying to damage control and and get ahead of everything, and then they just were like, Nope, and then they just dropped them and they and everything fell out and stuff like that.

00:43:07.369 --> 00:43:19.129
So I I I get it, but like I said, had they at that moment kind of said, like, look, like explain the whole thing, leveled with everyone, and just said, like, we're really sorry.

00:43:19.289 --> 00:43:22.250
Like, we get it, like, this isn't an excuse.

00:43:22.409 --> 00:43:24.329
We take full like responsibility.

00:43:24.489 --> 00:43:25.289
Like, you know what I mean?

00:43:25.369 --> 00:43:31.849
Like, yeah, I think things I don't I'm not saying they would have had, you know, an amazing, it wouldn't have been like, oh, Millie Vanilli's back.

00:43:31.929 --> 00:43:51.609
Like, I don't think it would have been like something like that, but like I think they would have been able to, you know, maybe both of them would have been able to have, you know, a different music career afterwards, or or or maybe like just it wouldn't have been so negative to those two in general, like like it wouldn't have fully just done that.

00:43:51.689 --> 00:43:56.730
But because they kind of, you know, I and and like I said, I'm not faulting them.

00:43:56.809 --> 00:44:05.449
I'm I'm sure they were being pressured by whoever was behind the scenes to like you have to do this, this is the only, this is we're writing for you, you have to say this, blah blah blah.

00:44:05.689 --> 00:44:06.250
You know what I mean?

00:44:06.329 --> 00:44:07.609
Like PR or whatever.

00:44:07.849 --> 00:44:15.449
Um, but but yeah, I mean, you just I'm sure like like you said at the very beginning, time machine.

00:44:15.609 --> 00:44:27.210
I'm sure if they could get a do over, they they they would have, and and maybe they wouldn't have you know done the do over at the very beginning, but maybe at this point they would have been like, we've got a the the different outcome.

00:44:27.769 --> 00:44:31.529
Like let's let's get ahead of it and say, like, you know what, we messed up.

00:44:31.689 --> 00:44:35.769
Like maybe that's where the do-over part would have started and stuff like that.

00:44:35.849 --> 00:44:36.569
And you just never know.

00:44:36.730 --> 00:44:43.449
I mean, you you just never it it's really weird to ever think about you know time machines, multiverse, do over stuff like that.

00:44:44.009 --> 00:44:54.169
But yeah, there's there's a there's a universe out there where they did fess up and like maybe they both uh they're both alive and like major music producers right now or something like that.

00:44:54.250 --> 00:44:56.089
Like multiverse is real people.

00:44:56.169 --> 00:44:58.169
Um I'll tell you what, man.

00:44:58.409 --> 00:45:04.569
If this story has taught me anything, I believe in genies, like 100%.

00:45:05.129 --> 00:45:12.730
This is the classic, I'm gonna give you what you wish for, but you better word it the right way.

00:45:13.289 --> 00:45:14.169
Right, right, right.

00:45:14.489 --> 00:45:18.649
This is this is the the story of Aladdin for sure.

00:45:18.889 --> 00:45:24.489
But it's also yeah, it's that, but it's also um they're they're a kind of a victim of their own success.

00:45:24.649 --> 00:45:48.489
Because like if you if they only got to a certain point, not like as huge as they exploded and in and stuff like that, it would have been you know relatively easy to keep it in wraps, and even if something like had had happened live and and stuff like that, right, then it's a smaller thing and it's a it's a smaller issue, it's not millions of people are seeing it, or or you know, stuff like that.

00:45:48.730 --> 00:45:50.489
So it it really is.

00:45:50.649 --> 00:46:00.649
You can also say that they they were a victim of their own success in in the sense of you know, they were just so big, like one they was it was an accident waiting to happen at that point.

00:46:00.809 --> 00:46:02.250
Um, you know what I mean?

00:46:02.409 --> 00:46:03.609
Like, yeah.

00:46:03.849 --> 00:46:16.489
So and and I mean, I also think it's it's something that it's really hard, and I'm going back and forth and back and forth in my brain right now about this.

00:46:16.889 --> 00:46:29.609
I don't know if something like that on that level could be orchestrated now, but the other side of me is going, well, what about the tech that exists now?

00:46:29.929 --> 00:46:34.009
Right, like how crazy the tech, how crazy different the tech is.

00:46:34.169 --> 00:46:37.129
They could literally be singing into a microphone.

00:46:37.210 --> 00:46:49.289
Because I've heard I've heard stories, and and you know, not to throw shade at any major artist or anything like that, but I've heard stories that now you can even do, uh, they can even do um autotune.

00:46:49.529 --> 00:46:50.809
Yeah, auto-tune live.

00:46:51.449 --> 00:46:54.730
People are singing into the real microphones, they're actually singing.

00:46:54.809 --> 00:47:15.289
So if you were standing right in front of the stage, you would hear them singing to a certain degree, not that much because obviously it's really loud and stuff like that, but you would still they're still doing it, but then it's going through a computer before it goes to the house, and they are just correcting every note and and stuff like that perfectly, which is something that exists 100%.

00:47:15.609 --> 00:47:17.929
It's proven that it exists, it exists, and stuff like that.

00:47:18.089 --> 00:47:24.009
So I wonder, I like I'm I'm so torn on with whether this could happen.

00:47:24.089 --> 00:47:33.129
Like, part of me is like we know ever so much more about everyone now, like because of just everything accessibility, yeah.

00:47:33.210 --> 00:47:35.769
The internet, TikTok, Instagram, everything.

00:47:35.929 --> 00:47:37.049
We know so much more.

00:47:37.210 --> 00:47:40.569
So I don't think I don't think an artist could come out of nowhere.

00:47:40.730 --> 00:47:47.210
And I think just like you've said all of this time, there had to have been so many people that knew about it.

00:47:47.289 --> 00:47:54.009
And I think that if something like that was happening now, that would be the downfall.

00:47:54.250 --> 00:48:03.769
Someone in the line of of knowing would leak it or would be like, better not get on my uh bad side, or else I'll tell everybody.

00:48:03.849 --> 00:48:08.730
Like, so like they would have to be like hush up, hush, hut, hush money, like everywhere type of thing.

00:48:08.969 --> 00:48:25.049
Um so yeah, I but I'm so torn on that because like like I said, tech is so much words, like it's well and and the the auto-tune thing, number one, if you're listening uh and and you are hearing this and you didn't know, like that's 100% happening.

00:48:25.129 --> 00:48:32.250
Like if you're going to live shows, 100% of the time is happening it right in front of your face.

00:48:32.489 --> 00:48:40.569
But my question is do you think that because it's become so industry standard at this point?

00:48:40.730 --> 00:48:50.569
Because let's be honest, every recording, if you go to a studio, they are correcting your vocals even if it's minute.

00:48:50.730 --> 00:48:56.409
Well, yeah, because it's the difference between perfection and like not perfection, right?

00:48:56.569 --> 00:49:00.489
And and and and look, I mean, I'll be fully transparent.

00:49:00.569 --> 00:49:06.409
Yeah, I mean, I don't use um auto-tune, but there's different programs.

00:49:06.569 --> 00:49:19.449
One is called uh melodyne, and melodyne basically you pick a section of of what you just recorded and you bring it in and it'll show you all of the notes that you hit.

00:49:19.529 --> 00:49:25.849
And if you go, oh yeah, that one syllable is not supposed to be there, it's actually supposed to be, you know, one notch down or one notch up.

00:49:26.089 --> 00:49:28.889
Those are the little nudgings that that happen to our side.

00:49:30.329 --> 00:49:30.649
Right.

00:49:30.809 --> 00:49:38.489
And and the way I look at it is this is something that we are putting our all into, and we want people to listen to it a lot.

00:49:38.730 --> 00:49:40.569
We don't want to have the imperfections.

00:49:40.649 --> 00:49:47.929
The imperfections come at the live show, and that's that's because I mean, I mean, you've you've watched you know a couple of the videos.

00:49:48.009 --> 00:49:50.809
I bounce up and down live shows like crazy.

00:49:50.969 --> 00:49:54.409
So like even the like, I don't want to be boring.

00:49:54.569 --> 00:49:57.210
So like our live shows, I'm always gonna be out of breath.

00:49:57.369 --> 00:50:05.529
I may not hit certain notes because I just don't have the same amount of airway that I would have, you know, if I was just standing there in a booth or not moving or anything like that.

00:50:05.609 --> 00:50:11.609
So the imperfections, but show, like fun show part of it, you're gonna hear the imperfections there.

00:50:11.769 --> 00:50:15.689
But what I want the recording to be is absolutely as perfect as it can possibly be.

00:50:15.849 --> 00:50:18.489
It's the same thing in my in my head, it's the same thing.

00:50:18.569 --> 00:50:34.569
If you're just making gentle you know, nudges here and there, that's the same as you know recording a guitar 15 times and taking the you know one note here and there to make the plucking sound perfect here or or stuff like that.

00:50:34.809 --> 00:50:37.449
You want everything across the board to be 100% perfect.

00:50:37.609 --> 00:50:42.489
I think the time to put on the show and for to be in perfection is live.

00:50:42.649 --> 00:50:44.889
And that's the way I I I will always look at it that way.

00:50:44.969 --> 00:50:46.089
Um 100%.

00:50:46.409 --> 00:50:47.689
I mean, full transparency.

00:50:47.769 --> 00:50:58.250
Like when you go into a studio, um number one, it's it's just a given that there whoever's producing the song is gonna be like, hey, most of the time they don't even tell you they did it.

00:50:58.329 --> 00:51:04.409
Yeah, like it's just that standard of like, yeah, we corrected any any imperfections in the vocal line.

00:51:04.569 --> 00:51:06.489
Uh timing is another issue.

00:51:06.649 --> 00:51:18.489
Like, if you're in a studio and you're off by like half a second, they're gonna go in and correct that, which still uses the same program to correct your vocal line, right?

00:51:18.649 --> 00:51:25.849
Still and guitar, same thing, like you just said, they're gonna go in, they're gonna make sure that that sound you wanted is in there.

00:51:26.009 --> 00:51:29.449
Hey, I I really want to pick up on the plucking sound on this acoustic part.

00:51:29.609 --> 00:51:29.929
Cool.

00:51:30.089 --> 00:51:33.369
We're gonna amplify these notes on the downstrum.

00:51:33.529 --> 00:51:38.489
We're going to change the pitch so that it sounds like the pluck sound as you're going down.

00:51:38.730 --> 00:51:44.169
Like there are just so many things that are done in the recording process.

00:51:44.329 --> 00:51:53.129
It doesn't mean that the songs are are less valuable or or less authentic or um that you're you're phoning in anything.

00:51:53.210 --> 00:51:55.849
It's just these are the industry standards.

00:51:55.929 --> 00:52:00.809
And in order to be a part of the industry, you have to meet the standards.

00:52:00.969 --> 00:52:03.609
If you're not meeting the standards, you're not gonna get airplay.

00:52:03.689 --> 00:52:03.769
Right.

00:52:04.009 --> 00:52:06.409
You're not gonna get airplay, it's not gonna get heard by anybody.

00:52:06.730 --> 00:52:24.250
And I I mean, at a certain point, it's like so you could sit there for hours and hours, especially when it's your own music, you could sit there for hours and redo the same part and and like say like one syllable was just one note wrong or one half note down or or something like that.

00:52:24.409 --> 00:52:30.809
You could eventually get there, but like you do two or three takes, and then you're like, I'm gonna go crazy.

00:52:30.969 --> 00:52:33.769
Because like I get then I get super hyper focused on stuff.

00:52:33.849 --> 00:52:35.529
Like, yep, and and it's funny.

00:52:35.689 --> 00:52:52.809
When we do on on on we do another episode of of the the hook and bridge, or uh yeah, yeah, when we do another episode of that with with my band, I I would be more than happy to explain it because Justin also, shout out to him.

00:52:52.969 --> 00:53:04.969
Um he is the the the person that I always want to be there when I'm recording vocals and stuff because he will get very ticky-tack about oh, that syllable, you could have done that one better, right?

00:53:05.129 --> 00:53:10.009
And but like after me doing it so many times, I'm just like, I'm gonna lose my mind.

00:53:10.169 --> 00:53:10.969
Yeah, yeah.

00:53:11.210 --> 00:53:26.730
If I can't get this, because I'll get super hyper-focused on one thing, and that'll be the only thing that I can think about, and then I'll throw myself off, and then so like you get it to as good as you possibly can, and then you just go, okay, we're just we're gonna nudge this syllable.

00:53:26.889 --> 00:53:33.129
You ended because you were getting ready to do another line, you ended down a little, just you know, a half a step down.

00:53:33.210 --> 00:53:36.809
You need it to be this, this up right here, and that's it, type of thing.

00:53:37.049 --> 00:54:02.250
Um, and that I think I think that's great because, like I said, and and you said you want that product to be perfect, you want that to be presented like this is the song, this is the way the songs are supposed to sound perfectly right, and then when you go and do everything live, you're like, this is what the band is supposed to sound like live because we're here to entertain and go crazy, and that's like you know what I mean?

00:54:02.329 --> 00:54:12.169
Like that's that's a whole different thing, and I think I think that's fair, and I think that's absolutely you know, within that you're not tricking anyone, right?

00:54:12.409 --> 00:54:23.929
In that like you're you're you're doing two different things, like a show is one thing, and and a recorded album that you want perfect is another is an absolutely completely different thing.

00:54:24.089 --> 00:54:30.809
Um I don't know where I fall on the live auto-tune thing.

00:54:31.049 --> 00:54:32.809
Because that's tri it's tricky.

00:54:33.129 --> 00:54:35.689
I know, because and here's the reason why.

00:54:36.009 --> 00:54:46.569
I and I I've already said this before, way lower on the totem pole than the artists that we're talking about that are getting live, you know, uh, you know, vocal adjustment and and and stuff like that.

00:54:46.730 --> 00:54:55.529
We're talking like top-tier people, and I don't even want to name anybody because I'm afraid that like I might name like throw shade at somebody who doesn't do it.

00:54:55.689 --> 00:54:56.569
Like, you know what I mean?

00:54:56.649 --> 00:54:57.769
Like, we don't really know.

00:54:57.929 --> 00:55:10.889
Like, yes, the the thought is probably it's happening with a lot of major artists and stuff like that, but there may be a few that it's not, like we just don't know, or maybe it's there, but they're not, they're only using it one percent versus another artist that might use it 90%.

00:55:11.210 --> 00:55:12.409
Like, you know what I mean?

00:55:12.489 --> 00:55:17.449
We just don't know, so I don't want to name any names of any artist that just pops into my head or anything like that.

00:55:17.769 --> 00:55:41.210
But I can't imagine playing stadiums for nine months in a row, six months in a row, almost every single night, having to perform for an hour, maybe even more, depending on you know what artists we're actually talking about, and and stuff like that, and still being crystal clear and perfect and stuff like that.

00:55:41.369 --> 00:55:51.929
So, like in my mind, because I am so much lower on the on that totem pole and and like not doing doing this as a full-time job and stuff like that, I don't know.

00:55:52.089 --> 00:56:08.169
Like, I I I I can say it for me, where I'm at right now would never you know have any kind of vocal adjustment live, more more than like I think they put reverb on sometimes, like if if you're in a big place or or something, they're 10% reverb or something like that.

00:56:08.250 --> 00:56:10.409
And that's usually that's on the sound board.

00:56:10.489 --> 00:56:11.529
Like, that's not us.

00:56:11.689 --> 00:56:16.169
That's the the sound guy might put it on a little bit of reverb on to make your sound bigger.

00:56:16.329 --> 00:56:17.369
Um, stuff like that.

00:56:17.449 --> 00:56:20.969
Like, that's not like a uh a vocal adjustment, that's just an effect.

00:56:21.210 --> 00:56:37.289
Um but yeah, like where I'm at now, I don't think I would ever do it live, but like I just don't know what it's like to be that massively big, play that much, have that much on your soul shoulders, and play that much night after night, day in, day out.

00:56:37.929 --> 00:56:40.089
Like two 200 plus shows, right?

00:56:40.250 --> 00:56:40.889
You know what I mean?

00:56:41.049 --> 00:56:43.369
Like right, that's 200 hours.

00:56:43.449 --> 00:56:51.929
Let's say everybody plays about an hour, that's 200 hours of singing the same 16 songs every single night.

00:56:52.169 --> 00:56:58.730
And you're letting people down if if you get a crappy night, because think about how much tickets are for those artists, yeah, and stuff like that.

00:56:58.889 --> 00:57:09.929
Like, if you're spending, you know, a grand for two tickets to see your favorite artist, like, or or whoever's favorite artist, that type of thing, you want them to sound as good as possible.

00:57:10.009 --> 00:57:17.449
You don't want to be the the night that they that they decided not to use autotune or the night that they decided like ah we'll fight we'll be fine, like type of thing.

00:57:17.689 --> 00:57:21.449
Or or the whole issue of like everybody being so accessible now.

00:57:21.609 --> 00:57:31.609
You're at that show, it's a bad night, you record it, you go to social media and tell everybody how terrible somebody was.

00:57:32.169 --> 00:57:45.529
Yeah, like it's a I mean it happens, yeah, it happens now, and it and it's not even the difference of you know, artists you know, uh uh lip syncing or having you know uh vocal adjustments and stuff from their mics.

00:57:45.689 --> 00:57:51.049
It's the difference of sometimes they just push themselves for for too long because they don't want to cancel a tour, they don't want to cancel a show.

00:57:51.129 --> 00:58:01.369
So artists will go out there and we're talking, I mean, we're talking like bigger pop punk bands, like not even like the the super main, main, main, mainstream bands.

00:58:01.449 --> 00:58:04.089
We're talking like, you know, medium tier bands.

00:58:04.250 --> 00:58:23.529
Sometimes they put those those those artists will push themselves, they'll get sick and they'll still push through it and stuff like that, and they'll sound bad, and they know they sound bad, but they're like, we can't cancel, like we can't cancel the show, and so like even then they get they get a little bit of negative crap for that, and you're just like, guys, people get sick, we're all human.

00:58:23.689 --> 00:58:26.089
Like, at some point we're gonna get sick.

00:58:26.329 --> 00:58:32.489
Would you rather, you know, we had canceled your show, or would you rather we be at the like have a show type of thing?

00:58:32.649 --> 00:58:34.329
Like, so it's I'm really torn.

00:58:34.569 --> 00:58:36.329
I'm I'm I'm really torn with all of that.

00:58:36.409 --> 00:58:46.009
I mean, if it's not blatantly to fool everyone, I think it's done in in with good intention.

00:58:46.250 --> 00:58:49.369
Like I think you gotta kind of go to the intention side of things.

00:58:49.609 --> 00:59:04.169
I don't, and I'm not even talking about the industry because I think you know, the there's there's there's a dark room with you know really high industry execs and and stuff like that that are like we have so much money in this, we have to do I'm talking about the artists themselves.

00:59:04.250 --> 00:59:09.849
I think if the the intention is I don't want to let my fans down, I don't think I have a problem with that, right?

00:59:10.009 --> 00:59:13.609
Um with live you know vocal adjustments and and stuff like that.

00:59:13.769 --> 00:59:22.569
Um, I think it really gets into where we talk about the the the big distinction between Millie Vanilli and and kind of what the tech we have now and and and stuff like that.

00:59:22.730 --> 00:59:25.289
Like so But like I said, I don't know.

00:59:25.369 --> 00:59:31.609
There could be some artists out there that have never saying a single word ever in studio or live.

00:59:31.689 --> 00:59:33.929
Like we don't know, we just don't know.

00:59:34.250 --> 00:59:39.689
Well, so speaking of the industry and Millie Bob uh Millie Bobby Brown, no Millie Vanilli.

00:59:40.730 --> 00:59:46.489
Um let's talk about like like we talked about earlier, the blame, you know.

00:59:46.649 --> 01:00:30.250
It I'm I'm in the camp of I think that Frank Farrian holds at least 80 percent of the blame um from cultivating this idea of this band bringing these artists over here, promising them the moon, and granted, slightly delivering, you know, there there's he did technically deliver on his promises, but like I don't know, man, it's dirty, like it just screams dirty, you know, and specifically to the the poor artists who spent years in the dark and didn't see a dime for their hard work.

01:00:30.569 --> 01:00:33.210
Um that's real messed up to do to somebody.

01:00:33.369 --> 01:00:43.049
Yeah, uh the other thing too is like you said, Rob and Fab, they they accepted the terms and agreement.

01:00:43.289 --> 01:00:43.529
Right.

01:00:43.689 --> 01:00:46.409
You gotta read that T and A every time.

01:00:46.649 --> 01:00:47.129
Yeah.

01:00:47.449 --> 01:00:52.730
So yeah, I mean I think that I think I agree with you on the percentages.

01:00:52.889 --> 01:01:04.889
I I like I've said multiple times, I don't think Rob and Fab are you know blameless in this situation, but they definitely are to a lesser extent, and I agree with that.

01:01:05.049 --> 01:01:14.009
Um I think they had an opportunity to kind of obviously not change the narrative or anything because at that point it was too late, they were caught.

01:01:14.169 --> 01:01:24.969
Now, if they had all of a sudden, you know, everything was so great and come out and did a an a breaking interview and really just told everybody, that would have been a hundred percent like they were good.

01:01:25.369 --> 01:01:26.969
Like they you know what I mean?

01:01:27.129 --> 01:01:31.129
Like they they were like, hey guys, we got to tell you this this crazy thing, like blah blah.

01:01:31.449 --> 01:01:42.569
But I think I I I I really feel bad that at that point, and and like I said, cannot imagine the amount of pressure that they had when it started going bad and and and everything like that.

01:01:42.730 --> 01:01:49.210
Cannot imagine what that felt like to be able to, you know, to to have to kind of sit there and and kind of talk about it.

01:01:49.369 --> 01:01:53.449
But so I I I don't blame them for not going, look, this was our bad.

01:01:53.609 --> 01:01:54.250
Like, you know what I mean?

01:01:54.329 --> 01:02:15.210
I don't blame them, but that's that is the moment that they could have really kind of taken taken the the their part of the blame and and kind of redirected the the the the the narrative and the blame to where it really should have gone instead of you know this is kind of the legacy type of thing.

01:02:15.449 --> 01:02:18.489
Right stuck with them to right, exactly.

01:02:18.809 --> 01:02:22.169
I feel bad for them, but they're not a hundred percent innocent.

01:02:22.409 --> 01:02:23.289
Absolutely.

01:02:23.609 --> 01:02:29.529
Um so basically at the end of all this, uh they did go on and try their solo careers.

01:02:29.609 --> 01:02:37.609
Unfortunately, like I said, Rob did pass away from uh addiction and and just some mental illness.

01:02:37.849 --> 01:02:42.649
Um he really struggled getting past this.

01:02:42.889 --> 01:02:52.889
Uh Fab thankfully was able to overcome, pursued his music career, still in the music industry today, still performing.

01:02:52.969 --> 01:02:58.089
Like there's videos of him from last year, like oh wow, yeah, he's he's still doing it, man.

01:02:58.169 --> 01:03:00.250
So he even did a tiny desk concert.

01:03:00.649 --> 01:03:00.969
Really?

01:03:01.129 --> 01:03:02.489
So yeah, yeah.

01:03:02.569 --> 01:03:06.409
So I mean, he's definitely out there doing his thing.

01:03:06.649 --> 01:03:10.089
Um, they got blacklisted, which is horrible.

01:03:10.409 --> 01:03:20.089
And like we've talked about why why all of this still matters, that you know, the AI going around right now is gonna be major in the industry.

01:03:20.329 --> 01:03:33.529
Um, the auto-tune, exactly this entire issue, if you think about it, it's fooling an audience, like especially like we talked about the the intent is what matters.

01:03:33.769 --> 01:03:43.849
Are you doing this intentionally to fool the audience, or are you doing it with the goodness of wanting to make sure that you perform well if you're fans?

01:03:44.089 --> 01:03:52.649
How heavy is the auto-tune from the get-go, um, and just the the image first artists in general.

01:03:52.809 --> 01:03:56.730
Like I've talked about that several times on our other show.

01:03:57.129 --> 01:04:13.289
The industry favors the beautiful, and unfortunately, there's beauty in everybody, but those who are not conventionally that way still have a great voice that deserves to be heard, right?

01:04:13.769 --> 01:04:49.369
And I and I I mean at that point, and that's something I a hundred percent agree with, because like I I I'm not one of the pretty people, um, but I I I hope, because in in in the grand scheme of things, of at least the level uh at you know that I've been to now, like in in music and and stuff like that, I feel like it really is kind of there if you have talent and you're you know true to your own talent and and true to your like it sounds it's uh it sounds silly.

01:04:49.529 --> 01:04:55.210
True to yourself, true to your own talent, there the right audience will find you, or you will find the right audience and stuff like that.

01:04:55.289 --> 01:05:27.929
And I think that is one really good thing with kind of the accessibility for being able to record now and to be able to put yourself out now, because it's like before it was really kind of you know you make it out and you're and you get big or you don't, and but now it's like you could blow up on TikTok, you can blow up on Instagram, like but you just you being being yourself, being your artist, playing your own songs, singing your own stuff, like you know what I mean.

01:05:28.009 --> 01:05:33.769
Like you can you can blow up by yourself without the music industry believing in you, type of thing.

01:05:33.849 --> 01:05:38.969
And I think that's that is hopefully you know the way that we continue to go.

01:05:39.049 --> 01:05:48.889
Like, there's always going to be, just like you said, the the the select few super high-tier people that the industry is like, oh, this is this is a moneymaker.

01:05:48.969 --> 01:05:56.089
We're we're bringing this person no matter what, we're gonna surround them with the best writers, we're gonna surround them with the best, you know, group, like whatever.

01:05:56.250 --> 01:05:57.289
There's always gonna be that.

01:05:57.449 --> 01:06:08.730
Because, like, like I've said multiple times, you know, I think the the the music industry is, you know, has those people at the top where it's just like, we need money, we need money, we need to make money, this needs to make money.

01:06:08.889 --> 01:06:10.889
So there's always gonna be that level of things.

01:06:10.969 --> 01:06:31.769
But I think, and I hope this continues, that because of the accessibility to be able to get yourself out there with you know very little, um, I hope that we do start seeing, you know, more mid to bigger level um artists that you know really did kind of make it their own way because that's I mean that's my hope too.

01:06:32.009 --> 01:06:33.769
Um like you know what I mean?

01:06:33.849 --> 01:06:38.730
Like I I just I I I I hope that's a continued trend is my like technically.

01:06:39.769 --> 01:07:00.329
So yeah a a little piece of advice to everybody if you if you're a musician or just a uh creator of any kind um honestly repetition and and like exposure are the two biggest things like it it the algorithm and our brains love repetition.

01:07:00.489 --> 01:07:24.649
Yeah have you ever noticed how you hate a new song when you first hear it and then the 15th time you've heard it you start to like it and then like the hundredth time you start to hate it again but then a couple years down the road you're like oh remember that stupid trumpet song back in the day I love that song or cheerleader like nobody liked cheerleader and now it's nostalgic.

01:07:24.809 --> 01:07:29.049
So I mean that's all it really that truly that is the answer.

01:07:29.210 --> 01:07:41.129
Like if you really break it down that is the answer the industry fills our brains with the same sound over and over and over because they know we love it.

01:07:41.609 --> 01:08:08.329
So until we start breaking away from that cycle uh these Millie Bobby Brown Milly Millie vanilli stories will continue watch out 11's coming for you for sure man Stranger things on the brain right now oh man um yeah that this this is the dark side of music guys I'm so privileged to get to hang out with Danny and talk about these stories.

01:08:08.969 --> 01:08:32.409
Danny tell the people where we can find you pr pretty much everywhere with the uh if it you can you can find my band anywhere just search just happy to be here on all the major you know music outlets or or social media outlets you can find me personally at at Danny Auto pretty much everywhere also um you know just playing video games sometimes on Twitch or you know doing anything talking talking with you here.

01:08:32.649 --> 01:09:00.809
Oh yeah and I'm Harley I'm the host of the hook and bridge podcast I do this show with Danny we have a third show that's out right now uh called off the record which is a lot of fun um so yeah you can find any hook and bridge anything you're gonna see my face so hook and bridge podcast is a very awesome podcast if you if you like music interviews I a hundred percent recommend it it's it I I'm hooked on that one so I love that podcast.

01:09:01.369 --> 01:09:07.609
Hell yeah it's been real guys uh thanks for hanging out with us and exploring these wild cases.

01:09:07.849 --> 01:09:10.329
Yeah bye everybody see you later